Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Game Over - Mafia Victory!

[Telleo]

Objectively, if one believes I'm scum, you are in pretty good hands. There's likely only 2 - 3 scum in this game (3 max probably).

Honestly, if this isn't scum attempting to fake a derpclear, and Happymeal truly cannot be arsed to read four pages of rules, I would hesitate before allowing him to join a game I run. Not a bad play for a scum with few good options, but if this is sincere it's awfully disrespectful to everyone involved.[/quote]

Oh, I read this as HM trolling us.

[Keirador]

So if HM is town

[shadowface]

You'd prefer randomly targeting someone tonight as opposed to a blue-voting vig plan or Telleo's plan if there are two Mafia left at the end of today?

Yes, unless we have a good vig kill target who we actually think is town.

With regards to your Jordan read, couldn't that stuff be scum Jordan preparing for if happymeal's town and trying to get town credit for dissenting the runaway townie lynch? I mean, if happymeal's town then is that a valid narrative for Jordan's actions as Mafia?

Yeah, definitely. But I don't like to read people as scum for being right about townies, because that's the exact action we strive towards as members of the town. So I don't find this particularly indicative.

Why are you not okay trying to think of reads of people who might be scum, should HM flip town, but you ARE okay backing a plan that requires HM to be town?

Like I said, it is much more pressing that we have a plan for the night, even if it's not likely to be used, because otherwise we won't have any time to discuss it.
But HM just conceded so I don't much care anymore.

Everything about this makes me want to lynch SF.

Shadowfriend1. You think HM is scum. Why aren't you willing to do any work today outside of that one read that no one disagrees on?

Who the hell else is posting random cases on specific players today? What do you think about the number of random cases Jordan's made, or the number of random cases Crunkus has made, or Harb or Keirador or anyone else? I am willing to, and if you read through my posts you'll see I have been engaging with and generating reads on many other players. It's just not very important that they are spelled out today because we already have our lynch, and blue votes only mean anything if I'm dead wrong about the entire game. I won't adapt to that very unlikely occurrence unless it actually happens.

But you know what, bring it on.
Shadowfriend1
I'm that sure HM is scum. These blue votes are a total waste of time.

[Telleo]

Ok. This is what I've been wanting from you for like 40 odd pages. Nice of you to finally start.

That said, it's not enough.

You've got one scumread on one player. It's not a strong one, it's just "this guy soft defends HM." I'm not disagreeing, I'm just wondering why you don't have anything stronger. Or, you know... anything else at all. You haven't seen anything from any of the other seven players in the past nearly 70 pages?

Also, and this just occurred to me:

Why are you not okay trying to think of reads of people who might be scum, should HM flip town, but you ARE okay backing a plan that requires HM to be town?

I don't really understand this Regina George approach to shadowfriend. Riding somebody for failing to scumhunt always kinda looks like feigned activity to me, but in this case I particularly don't get it. In your experience, does SF usually scumhunt as town to a much greater degree than she's doing here? Is SF the single worst offender for failing to scumhunt beyond Happymeal? Is she worse than, f'rinstance, me? Is she worse than you? Do you have a track record in this game of scumhunting off Happymeal besides pushing SF for not scumhunting?

PPE: Hey, even more of it.

Says the guy who just finished responding to my argument with Crunkus.

In my experience, when a scum player is caught, it's to the benefit of the scum to not want discussion happening on other players. Is SF's action inconsistent with this? Is it in the town's interest to not only not scumhunt, but refuse to scumhunt when called upon to do so?

[Keirador]

Alright, is SF 1) worse about scumhunting in this game than she usually is as town, and/or 2) worse about scumhunting than other players you don't seem to be pursuing, like Harb or myself?

[Telleo]

So if HM is town

More like:

[Telleo]

Going offline for a bit. Dropping the points with Crunkus - Sjg and Keir are making sense, and continued efforts to push on this point would just be forced.

[sjg11]

Ok. This is what I've been wanting from you for like 40 odd pages. Nice of you to finally start.

That said, it's not enough.

You've got one scumread on one player. It's not a strong one, it's just "this guy soft defends HM." I'm not disagreeing, I'm just wondering why you don't have anything stronger. Or, you know... anything else at all. You haven't seen anything from any of the other seven players in the past nearly 70 pages?

Also, and this just occurred to me:

Why are you not okay trying to think of reads of people who might be scum, should HM flip town, but you ARE okay backing a plan that requires HM to be town?

I don't really understand this Regina George approach to shadowfriend. Riding somebody for failing to scumhunt always kinda looks like feigned activity to me, but in this case I particularly don't get it. In your experience, does SF usually scumhunt as town to a much greater degree than she's doing here? Is SF the single worst offender for failing to scumhunt beyond Happymeal? Is she worse than, f'rinstance, me? Is she worse than you? Do you have a track record in this game of scumhunting off Happymeal besides pushing SF for not scumhunting?

PPE: Hey, even more of it.

Keirador, I'm also having an issue with shadowfriend's view on the Telleo-Crunkus incident.

Shadowfriend said that it's very rare for a Mafia to get into an engagement with Crunkus. This is because, in her view, Crunkus is a very difficult player to engage with and a Mafia is incredibly likely to slip up if they try to engage with Crunkus. Thus trying to engage with Crunkus is a foolish move.
Yet despite this shadowfriend does not think that Telleo engaging with Crunkus is town indicative.
Her reason for this is that Telleo is an exceptional scum player
Yet if Telleo's an exceptional scum player surely she doesn't make the tactical error to engage with Crunkus in the first place? Surely it makes her LESS likely to be engaging with Crunkus as Mafia in the shadowfriend world view.

So yeah I have an issue with that as well here.

[sjg11]

You'd prefer randomly targeting someone tonight as opposed to a blue-voting vig plan or Telleo's plan if there are two Mafia left at the end of today?

Yes, unless we have a good vig kill target who we actually think is town.

Why is random targeting a better idea than Telleo's plan?

With regards to your Jordan read, couldn't that stuff be scum Jordan preparing for if happymeal's town and trying to get town credit for dissenting the runaway townie lynch? I mean, if happymeal's town then is that a valid narrative for Jordan's actions as Mafia?

Yeah, definitely. But I don't like to read people as scum for being right about townies, because that's the exact action we strive towards as members of the town. So I don't find this particularly indicative.

Ok, do you think Jordan's process for townreading happymeal is insincere?

[Keirador]

Ok. This is what I've been wanting from you for like 40 odd pages. Nice of you to finally start.

That said, it's not enough.

You've got one scumread on one player. It's not a strong one, it's just "this guy soft defends HM." I'm not disagreeing, I'm just wondering why you don't have anything stronger. Or, you know... anything else at all. You haven't seen anything from any of the other seven players in the past nearly 70 pages?

Also, and this just occurred to me:

Why are you not okay trying to think of reads of people who might be scum, should HM flip town, but you ARE okay backing a plan that requires HM to be town?

I don't really understand this Regina George approach to shadowfriend. Riding somebody for failing to scumhunt always kinda looks like feigned activity to me, but in this case I particularly don't get it. In your experience, does SF usually scumhunt as town to a much greater degree than she's doing here? Is SF the single worst offender for failing to scumhunt beyond Happymeal? Is she worse than, f'rinstance, me? Is she worse than you? Do you have a track record in this game of scumhunting off Happymeal besides pushing SF for not scumhunting?

PPE: Hey, even more of it.

Keirador, I'm also having an issue with shadowfriend's view on the Telleo-Crunkus incident.

Shadowfriend said that it's very rare for a Mafia to get into an engagement with Crunkus. This is because, in her view, Crunkus is a very difficult player to engage with and a Mafia is incredibly likely to slip up if they try to engage with Crunkus. Thus trying to engage with Crunkus is a foolish move.
Yet despite this shadowfriend does not think that Telleo engaging with Crunkus is town indicative.
Her reason for this is that Telleo is an exceptional scum player
Yet if Telleo's an exceptional scum player surely she doesn't make the tactical error to engage with Crunkus in the first place? Surely it makes her LESS likely to be engaging with Crunkus as Mafia in the shadowfriend world view.

So yeah I have an issue with that as well here.

Ugh, I was trying to ignore you indefinitely.

I get this is not a closed loop of reasoning, but has Telleo brought this up? As far as I can tell, Telleo's major problem with SF is lack of scumhunting, which doesn't seem all that unique to SF.