Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Game Over - Mafia Victory!

Moderators: Zoomzip, Telleo, bkbkbk, condude1, sjg11

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby Keirador » 17 Jan 2017, 07:09

I pushed Jordan per mhsmith's plan and currently have 2 push points.
Did you know there’s a faceless old woman who secretly lives in your home? It’s true. She’s there now. She’s always there, just out of your sight. Always just out of your sight.
User avatar
Keirador
 
Posts: 11217
Joined: 01 Dec 2008, 21:36
Location: Living secretly in the home of every single resident of Night Vale
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1132)
All-game rating: (1133)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby condude1 » 17 Jan 2017, 07:11

Jordan767 wrote:Condude, your link in your signature is slightly mis-edited...


Thanks.
Telleo wrote:I don't think I've ever met someone who more perfectly embodied Chaotic Neutral than Condude1.


Moderator of the Mafia Subforums!

Silver member of The Classicists!
User avatar
condude1
 
Posts: 8161
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 03:41
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1368)
All-game rating: (1307)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby shadowface » 17 Jan 2017, 07:24

Good morning everyone. Looks like no one cheated; I have 0 push/pulls for the record.

Tomorrow's busy for me, so I'm going to get on this now.

Jordan767

I've been gut reading Jordan as scum for almost the whole game, but I've had a hard time getting a case together, and I hate to rely on gut reads. Yesterday I didn't get around to making a case that I thought could convince the anti-smith camp, which I regret. Luckily, there is much more to work with today now that we can talk about something other than smith.

Jordan767 wrote:Caught up. Note: school wifi is total crap.

Going to go back and respond to things starting with EoD yesterday.

Before I do, some thoughts:

mhsmith0 looks pretty scummy. Also has pretty much only talked about mechanics and why he's town today. Not a fan.

This vote bothered me when he made it. It's hard to peg why, but I think it's that voting for someone because they look pretty scummy is not just bandwagoning, but bandwagoning in an unconvinced manner. When you're town, either you think someone is scummy or not. Their appearance is less valuable to a townie, but of course the only factor scum can use to construct a case.

This very soft kind of reasoning is clearly why he reads smith though: many times he says things like:
a scum explanation comes far more readily than a town one.

Strikes me that the read could be manufactured. I don't know.

Knowing that smith is town now, these kinds of comments are clearly part of setting up a mislynch without ever actually being wrong. This continues throughout Jordan's day, as following comments show.

With all of this, I'm having genuine difficulties not shouting OMGUS at you [smith] and moving on.

Jordan's voting this guy, while acknowledging that he's doing so for OMGUS reasons. Which is a very bad situation that townies get into by accident, but not consciously. OMGUS is an excuse to vote for someone, that you should not be claiming before the fact. Already Jordan's trying to distance himself from the smith lynch and make excuses for it. Clearly, as scum he was compelled to join the smith wagon originally because it was a mislynch. But once no counterlynch materialized, and his vote was no longer needed, there was really no easy way for Jordan to move off of mhsmith. It's not realistic for scum, or anyone for that matter, to unvote near EOD without having another lynch to join. I mean, where would that random town-read come from? Clearly this constraint would apply to anyone who was voting mhsmith at EOD, but many of those players went down convinced of their read. Jordan, in contrast, distances himself from it as best he can without unvoting. More on this later.

Jordan767 wrote:To do overnight: ...
reread any and all reasons that have been given to townread these two players (IIRC there are some? I'll check) so I can make sure I'm not just being stupid

Jordan doesn't understand why people have any townreads, but wants to be seen as considering it. Many players today understand precisely why there are townreads on players like Telleo and ZZ, but Jordan doesn't. Scum can't afford that.
How do we know that he genuinely didn't understand why people have town reads today? That's plausible for a townie, sure. But shortly before he makes the above post, in which is doesn't understand why townreads are out there, he posts this in response to mhsmith's lengthy explaination of his townreads here: viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&start=1417

Jordan767 wrote:Gotcha. Thanks.


Jordan clearly acknowledges the reasons for townreading yesterday. That doesn't mesh at all with what he posts at EOD, which is skepticism towards townreads. This is the precise act the scum must perform in this situation: not townreading anyone. If they do that they are systematically chopping off their ability to win at LYLO, a tricky situation they are going to have to face without a nightkill. The only problem is it's tough act to pull together in thread, because townies inherently start to develop townreads towards people who show themselves to be town. This extremely difficult balancing act is the ultimate source of his contradiction.

Jordan767 wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:
Jordan767 wrote:And honestly? At this point smith has succeeded in making Day 2 All About Smith. So if we don't know smith's flip then today has not been terribly useful.


Please, you and a lot of people are just as complicit in that as he is. I mean, look at Keirador "Well people are saying it's either Smith or Not Smith, so I pick Smith" As though Keirador couldn't also look around.

I'm completely fine with voting smith at this point. Why should it be on someone who scumreads him instead of someone who townreads him to find an alternative to his lynch?

Jordan is copping out of having to prevent a lynch on mhsmith, while being part of the problem. Jordan's vote is on mhsmith, yet he says it isn't his responsibility to vote better because he already has a read. This is EXACTLY what I think when I'm scum - if I already have my vote on some solid wagon, I feel no motivation whatsoever to move it. For scum to leave a wagon, they have to make a concerted effort. But townies are always concerned if they think they are lynching town - they don't just try to delegate responsibility at the most crucial moment, using the fact that they already have a wagon as an excuse.


Also, it might be wise to consider mhsmith on Jordan. Their interactions are all here:
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=jordan&t=54506&author=mhsmith0&ch=-1
This is a very valuable perspective because we now know it comes from a townie.
mhsmith wrote:2) Lynching Jordan tomorrow is 100% my recommendation, both because he's likely scum AND because killing him will lock in peoples' power ratings much more explicitly.

The next order of business for me here is reviewing Jordan's scum/town play in other games for some context. I would really like the town to engage in this case. Even if you don't agree with me, this is specifically who smith suggested we analyze today, so it illogical to write this off:

mhsmith wrote:PLEASE make sure to pick up on the Jordan interrogation tomorow. DO NOT let him slip off, or town wander off onto some random lazy lynch. I don't mind if there's a push on dodgy, sjg, crunkus or MAYBE keirador (his "town!you would push these other people" push on me was kinda BS but it didn't feel different than in plague mafia where he was town) but there needs to be a serious Jordan investigation and interrogation.
The player formerly known as shadowfriend1
Proud bearer of the Angle of Unnecessary Overshoot
Previously cursed by the Talisman of Greater Scumminess :twisted:, now an innocent, reformed townsperson
User avatar
shadowface
 
Posts: 5524
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 06:26
Location: Toronto
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (892)
All-game rating: (892)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby shadowface » 17 Jan 2017, 07:26

I'm heading to bed because my classes start brutally early tomorrow. Also, I confirm I pushed Crunkus as according to the plan.
The player formerly known as shadowfriend1
Proud bearer of the Angle of Unnecessary Overshoot
Previously cursed by the Talisman of Greater Scumminess :twisted:, now an innocent, reformed townsperson
User avatar
shadowface
 
Posts: 5524
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 06:26
Location: Toronto
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (892)
All-game rating: (892)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby Jordan767 » 17 Jan 2017, 08:25

shadowfriend1 wrote:Good morning everyone. Looks like no one cheated; I have 0 push/pulls for the record.

Tomorrow's busy for me, so I'm going to get on this now.

Jordan767

I've been gut reading Jordan as scum for almost the whole game, but I've had a hard time getting a case together, and I hate to rely on gut reads. Yesterday I didn't get around to making a case that I thought could convince the anti-smith camp, which I regret. Luckily, there is much more to work with today now that we can talk about something other than smith.


Is there a reason you voted a null lurker over a scumread yesterday, even a gut read?
shadowfriend1 wrote:
Jordan767 wrote:Caught up. Note: school wifi is total crap.

Going to go back and respond to things starting with EoD yesterday.

Before I do, some thoughts:

mhsmith0 looks pretty scummy. Also has pretty much only talked about mechanics and why he's town today. Not a fan.

This vote bothered me when he made it. It's hard to peg why, but I think it's that voting for someone because they look pretty scummy is not just bandwagoning, but bandwagoning in an unconvinced manner. When you're town, either you think someone is scummy or not. Their appearance is less valuable to a townie, but of course the only factor scum can use to construct a case.

This very soft kind of reasoning is clearly why he reads smith though: many times he says things like:
a scum explanation comes far more readily than a town one.

Strikes me that the read could be manufactured. I don't know.

Knowing that smith is town now, these kinds of comments are clearly part of setting up a mislynch without ever actually being wrong. This continues throughout Jordan's day, as following comments show.

Is this not just a semantics issue? I use a variety of different phrases for "seems to me" and "looks" is one of them.

Agreed on the soft reasoning. It wasn't great. But as ZZ and I discussed it was kind of a "so much smoke that most likely there's a fire" situation.

"Clearly" is IMO a huge overstatement.
shadowfriend1 wrote:
With all of this, I'm having genuine difficulties not shouting OMGUS at you [smith] and moving on.

Jordan's voting this guy, while acknowledging that he's doing so for OMGUS reasons. Which is a very bad situation that townies get into by accident, but not consciously. OMGUS is an excuse to vote for someone, that you should not be claiming before the fact. Already Jordan's trying to distance himself from the smith lynch and make excuses for it. Clearly, as scum he was compelled to join the smith wagon originally because it was a mislynch. But once no counterlynch materialized, and his vote was no longer needed, there was really no easy way for Jordan to move off of mhsmith. It's not realistic for scum, or anyone for that matter, to unvote near EOD without having another lynch to join. I mean, where would that random town-read come from? Clearly this constraint would apply to anyone who was voting mhsmith at EOD, but many of those players went down convinced of their read. Jordan, in contrast, distances himself from it as best he can without unvoting. More on this later.

I know OMGUS is a bad thing. It's also hard to escape, as your opinion of someone is affected by what their interaction is with you. I knew that after he voted me my read on him was being driven in part by his vote on me. That was potentially inaccurate (as it turned out to be). I made that post as public acknowledgement that this was an issue I might be having in my engagement with him and I privately attempted to combat it.

Additionally, it was not just for OMGUS reasons nor was it claimed before the fact as I'm reasonably sure I cast my vote on him before he cast his vote on me.
shadowfriend1 wrote:
Jordan767 wrote:To do overnight: ...
reread any and all reasons that have been given to townread these two players (IIRC there are some? I'll check) so I can make sure I'm not just being stupid

Jordan doesn't understand why people have any townreads, but wants to be seen as considering it. Many players today understand precisely why there are townreads on players like Telleo and ZZ, but Jordan doesn't. Scum can't afford that.
How do we know that he genuinely didn't understand why people have town reads today? That's plausible for a townie, sure. But shortly before he makes the above post, in which is doesn't understand why townreads are out there, he posts this in response to mhsmith's lengthy explaination of his townreads here: viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&start=1417

Jordan767 wrote:Gotcha. Thanks.


Jordan clearly acknowledges the reasons for townreading yesterday. That doesn't mesh at all with what he posts at EOD, which is skepticism towards townreads. This is the precise act the scum must perform in this situation: not townreading anyone. If they do that they are systematically chopping off their ability to win at LYLO, a tricky situation they are going to have to face without a nightkill. The only problem is it's tough act to pull together in thread, because townies inherently start to develop townreads towards people who show themselves to be town. This extremely difficult balancing act is the ultimate source of his contradiction.

This is inaccurate. The two players I was referring to were sjg and Keirador (IIRC sjg at least had someone townreading him and I wanted to evaluate that before, you know, voting someone I should townread). I do understand the purpose of townreading and why ZZ and Telleo are townread. I have also posted earlier that I do feel that both these players are town.
shadowfriend1 wrote:
Jordan767 wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:JORDAN: And honestly? At this point smith has succeeded in making Day 2 All About Smith. So if we don't know smith's flip then today has not been terribly useful./JORDAN

Please, you and a lot of people are just as complicit in that as he is. I mean, look at Keirador "Well people are saying it's either Smith or Not Smith, so I pick Smith" As though Keirador couldn't also look around.

I'm completely fine with voting smith at this point. Why should it be on someone who scumreads him instead of someone who townreads him to find an alternative to his lynch?

Jordan is copping out of having to prevent a lynch on mhsmith, while being part of the problem. Jordan's vote is on mhsmith, yet he says it isn't his responsibility to vote better because he already has a read. This is EXACTLY what I think when I'm scum - if I already have my vote on some solid wagon, I feel no motivation whatsoever to move it. For scum to leave a wagon, they have to make a concerted effort. But townies are always concerned if they think they are lynching town - they don't just try to delegate responsibility at the most crucial moment, using the fact that they already have a wagon as an excuse.

Why am I finding another vote for myself when I feel comfortable with the vote I have? Especially as the point at which I said that was a high water mark for my scumread on him.
shadowfriend1 wrote:Also, it might be wise to consider mhsmith on Jordan. Their interactions are all here:
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=jordan&t=54506&author=mhsmith0&ch=-1
This is a very valuable perspective because we now know it comes from a townie.
mhsmith wrote:2) Lynching Jordan tomorrow is 100% my recommendation, both because he's likely scum AND because killing him will lock in peoples' power ratings much more explicitly.

The next order of business for me here is reviewing Jordan's scum/town play in other games for some context. I would really like the town to engage in this case. Even if you don't agree with me, this is specifically who smith suggested we analyze today, so it illogical to write this off:

mhsmith wrote:PLEASE make sure to pick up on the Jordan interrogation tomorow. DO NOT let him slip off, or town wander off onto some random lazy lynch. I don't mind if there's a push on dodgy, sjg, crunkus or MAYBE keirador (his "town!you would push these other people" push on me was kinda BS but it didn't feel different than in plague mafia where he was town) but there needs to be a serious Jordan investigation and interrogation.

I'm sadly conscious that I'm playing kind of how I do as scum. Most of my experience and all of my recent experience is as scum and that's no doubt making my town game harder to read and recognize. My apologies.

Fair point on me being a good lynch to push. I'm just not the right one ;)
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby dodgy56 » 17 Jan 2017, 09:28

I pulled telleo as per the plan, looks like she pulled me too given I'm at 1 push point
you never play your hand.
You play the man across from you

The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone else he can blame it on

Drug Cheats mafia now in signups
User avatar
dodgy56
 
Posts: 2474
Joined: 29 May 2013, 04:34
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (833)
All-game rating: (764)
Timezone: GMT+10

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby sjg11 » 17 Jan 2017, 13:28

3 pull points. Busy today, might post more this evening
One of the people in charge of the Mafia forum.
Telleo wrote:The mafia forum, to them,
Sir SJG's known as a gem,
He writes a good game,
and runs it the same,
Oh what a perfect GM!

Come on Arsenal!
User avatar
sjg11
 
Posts: 18325
Joined: 24 Dec 2010, 15:30
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (908)
All-game rating: (899)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby Telleo » 17 Jan 2017, 14:49

I followed MHS0's plan, and Pulled Dodgy. I now have 1 pull.

The following two posts I wrote during the night; I have not yet read today's posts in detail, although I have skimmed.
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby Telleo » 17 Jan 2017, 14:50

Zoomzip wrote:A few final thoughts:


Telleo, the acting bit is the second post of SJG re: HM. SJG has made the vote, now he is selling it more. Like genuine stream of consciousness means he suddenly remembered "Oh, hey, I GMed that game, and I know its mechanics, and HM totally lied" in between one period and one capital "N" -- That feels weird as hell to me. But it does make sense if you are trying to get those sweet, sweet town points. "Look how I have suddenly come to this new information! You can see the lightbulb ding over my head!" It is not as overt as MHS0's "I am obvs town" type posting, and that makes me distrust it more as a potential "let me profit from the (now known to be) inevitable HM flip”


I mean, I see what you’re talking about. I’m just not sure why it’s more likely Sjg takes the time to fake this, than that Sjg is genuinely thinking about it. Other possibilities exist, like “Hey, lemme pause writing to go check” which wouldn’t necessarily be represented in his post.

@Telleo: If MHS0 flips town, why are you resisting the switch to his plan? I mean, pride, sure, it's your plan, it's worked once, well done, all the credit in the world -- but it seems a reasonable last request. If he flips scum, game is over, so why not? There's no blatant 1-person exploit I can think of that doesn't provide high traceability back one or two players.


So I dropped off and the end of yesterday, and that’s on me. However, had I been around, I was actually coming around to this line of thinking. And yeah, basically pride was why I rejected the plan at first. But in the end, my plan had already succeeded - we have confirmed ratings for everyone. From now on, we’ll know if/where trickery occurs. So minimizing the scum’s ability to hail-Mary us on the last night should be our NG priority. Which means keeping our values as close to zero as possible.
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Night 2

Postby Telleo » 17 Jan 2017, 15:00

This collection of posts is making me VERY uncomfortable RE: Shadowfriend1:

shadowfriend1 wrote:
Telleo wrote:
shadowfriend1 wrote:In all seriousness, that's actually a good point - I don't know if it applies to me, but in general townreads are extremely dangerous to the scum in this game. It might be worthwhile to look at who has been opposing townreading other people, because I'm pretty sure the scum would be in that crowd.


I strongly disagree with this. Townreads are VERY dangerous, because if they are incorrectly applied and no one notices, the scum win. Opposition to townreads is in NO way scum indicative. Just like how opposition to scumreads isn't scum indicative.

Now, if you want to make an argument that Player X is opposing a townread that should be obvious, or in a way that makes them scummy, I'm all ears. But don't call someone out JUST for opposing a read.

So you didn't read my post, then? Not really? You say you disagree with me, and then proceed to agree with what I actually said. I feel like you're trying to construct an evil image of me. Like, I said, " It might be worthwhile to look at who has been opposing townreading other people, because I'm pretty sure the scum would be in that crowd."
You agree that if I found an indicative instance it would be a good tell. So you don't strongly disagree with me at all.


Did YOU read what I wrote?

Because while you’re arguing that town reads are a GOOD thing, that are dangerous for the SCUM, I’m arguing that they are BAD and dangerous for the TOWN.

But sure. I’m secretly agreeing with you while trying to make a bad image out of you. That’s what’s happening.


Next post:

shadowfriend1 wrote:
Telleo wrote:If SF is scum, she's not legitimately suspicious of anyone. It's easy to forget what you've said in thread, and she might have gone after dodgy instead of jordan for that reason. But you're claiming it's totally unreasonable for Sjg to go after someone who has not made clear, in-thread, why there's been an apparent shift in reads?

Telleo, I actually talked about wanting to make a case on Jordan IN THAT VERY POST. How does that mesh up with having forgotten about him? I feel like you're really out to get me.


Yup. I’m out to get you. Certainly Sjg, who actually came up with this point, doesn’t have anything to do with it though.

And no, by the way. You don’t talk about “wanting to make a case on Jordan IN THAT VERY POST.” Don’t get all high and mighty with me. You talk to him about smith for a bit. Nowhere does your previous suspicion of Jordan show up.


Next post:

shadowfriend1 wrote:
Telleo wrote:Again, you're misunderstanding the problem here. I'm not concerned that MHS0 called the game locked when it wasn't. I'm concerned that he intentionally (it appears) obfuscated his train of thought when called on it.

Telleo, please provide evidence that smith was intentially obfuscating his train of thought. How the hell could you know he did that? Do you actually have evidence for that claim?


Umm. Literally the entire conversation I had with him ASKING him to explain his train of thought on his tone-read of you, to which he just demanded that I explain him to him? I mean, regardless of his now-evident townie-ness, he was absolutely keeping his train of thought hidden.

Did you really not know what I meant by that? Or is this just a cheap shot at “Telleo must know something she shouldn’t?” Because I might point out I also threw in an “It appears” in the very post you quote because obviously I didn’t KNOW what he was doing re: his intentions. So how did you come to the assumptions behind those questions?

Telleo wrote:Sure. But do you buy that he wants to shorten the game at the expense of "unlocking" the night game?

I consider it possible. It would have to be rationally impossible, or atleast very improbable, to be a scum tell.


Right. And why do you find it so rational that Smith, who BELIEVES the game is won following my plan, is willing to risk that? Just… because it could be? So anything that could be treated as coming from town, no matter how unlikely, should be treated as coming from town? I mean, you say “improbable” like that means something while you’re refusing to accept that this was highly improbable behavior for a town.

Telleo wrote:Wait, what? You don't see a scum motive for loudly announcing that what has happened in thread doesn't line up with your scum play?

No, because like I said, would scum smith expect the town to fall for this?


Too scummy to be scum is a terrible argument. Next time I’m scum, all I’ve gotta do is loudly proclaim that I’m town, and you’ll buy it because obviously no scum would expect the town to fall for it? Good to know.

Telleo wrote:I'm concerned that you seem to ignore the main reasons for scumreads on MHS0, namely his unclear train of thought and his refusal (multiple times) to elucidate.

Telleo, in that post I was rereading smith to try to find indicators of allignment in what he said. I ended up finding stuff that related to his case, but of course I wouldn't find, like, a refusal to elucidate or an unclear train of thought. Those are very general accusations, so such concerns would not have appeared on my reread.


So you don’t even see why people were concerned with his interactions. You have no clue where Crunkus was coming from, or where I was coming from, or anyone else. Just “Nope, these guys are attacking MHS0 out of the blue.”

How did you not see this? And if you genuinely didn’t, why didn’t you call us out on it?

Also, why are you concerned? We can't both be scum, right? From your perspective, either I'm right about smith or I'm town, guaranteed.


What?

What?

WHAT?

I can’t be concerned by you trying to defend someone in a terrible way? I can’t engage with someone who’s trying to clear a player I’m voting for? I mean, obviously if MHS0 had been scum, it wouldn’t have mattered. But I didn’t KNOW he was scum. So yeah, I was concerned. From my perspective, either you were WRONG about smith, or I knew nothing about your alignment either way. Was there some kind of dipole I was missing there? Why was I supposed to be assuming you were town?


Next post:

shadowfriend1 wrote:
Telleo wrote:I can't disapprove of a counterlynch. I'm not ready to join this one (and frankly, I doubt I'll be leaving MHS0), but at least you're doing work, unlike the other potential alternatives.

Telleo: if I make a case right now, what is the likelihood that you will agree with it and follow it?

Is it even possible?

Why would I want to 'do work' on a case when you aren't considering anything I'm saying?


What about this says to you, “Telleo isn’t listening to SF1?”

What about this says to you, “Telleo isn’t EVER going to listen to a case I make?”

What about this post, which is directed to ZZ over his case on Sjg, makes you feel singled out?

What AT ALL prompts this kind of “Telleo’s terrible” response?


Next post:

shadowfriend1 wrote:
shadowfriend1 wrote:
Telleo wrote:I can't disapprove of a counterlynch. I'm not ready to join this one (and frankly, I doubt I'll be leaving MHS0), but at least you're doing work, unlike the other potential alternatives.

Telleo: if I make a case right now, what is the likelihood that you will agree with it and follow it?

Is it even possible?

Why would I want to 'do work' on a case when you aren't considering anything I'm saying?

To clarify why I'm annoyed, Telleo, take a look through the posts you've made today directed at me. They've all been quite hostile, often overlooking the denotation of my posts to assume some awful motive. Maybe this is how you scumunt, but I feel like you've prejudged all of my comments to be either evil or by nature wrong. This just isn't the case, and it makes me feel like any work I put into this game is futile.


Ok, bluff called. Quote me.

Show me where all this hostility is. Show me where it’s different from anyone else in this game that I’ve been mildly suspicious of. Show me where I’m prejudging your comments, rather than responding to what you’ve put down and asking you to explain yourself. This feels forced. This feels fake. I was legitimately SHOCKED to return to the thread to find you ranting about how I’m out to get you.

Like actually, I went back. I’ve made 4 posts to you. The first disagrees on MHS0’s motives for proposing his big plan. The second calls out your Dodgy vote as bad. The third disagrees with your case for MHS0’s innocence, and reflects concern that you don’t seem to understand the case (which has not been addressed, btw). The fourth disagrees with your thoughts on Townreads.

In addition to those posts, I’ve seconded Sjg’s comment wondering why you didn’t open D2 on jordan, I’ve explained why that action has a potential scum possibility (and isn’t just “mud slinging”) to MHS0, and I made a glib comment to MHS0 that he was being hypocritical by defending you for not wanting to scum hunt with the mindset of HM=town, but attacking Jordan for the same mindset.

So please, quote me on all this hostility.

Next, while we’re on it, what "work you put into this game"? What have you done in this game? Scumhunted? On who? Sjg and I called you on not doing any work D1, and you said “Hey look I don’t like Jordan.” Then D2 you place a vote on Dodgy because he’s lurking, while avoiding a mislynch that every other player in the game was sold on. Anything I’m forgetting, or does that about cover it?


Next post:

shadowfriend1 wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:Ok. Condude confirms sub coming in at EOD. I commit my sub to pushing SJG if there's a night phase. Hopefully they see that and honor it.

Why are you leaving ZZ? :( Because your case on sjg didn't get much traction?



Do you believe that?

I mean… how petty do you think ZZ is?


Next post:

shadowfriend1 wrote:
mhsmith0 wrote:
shadowfriend1 wrote:Why are you leaving ZZ? :( Because your case on sjg didn't get much traction?


Please don't get into why he left. It's IMO pretty clearly not for the sjg stuff.

Really? What is it then? Crunkus stuff? Or did he sub in to a really crappy position as scum? I mean, that one slot has been vacated twice now, when no other players in the game have been left at all. Sort of stands out, right?

No. I'm not sure it should get much traction to be honest. I'm subbing out for non alignment reasons which would
Be kinda shitty meta gaming to go into.

Don't wanna be a jerk to you here but I'm confused.


What are you even doing?

Both of these players say “drop it” and you decide the best use of your time is to pry into it, including with a shitty “two players subbed out of one spot, looks shady” argument?


I’m not quoting the rest of SF’s bullshit about this, because I don’t want this to become a discussion of why ZZ and Harb may or may not have left. But SF, I seriously hope this is an ill-advised scum tactic, because it’s a very uncool position to take as town.
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

PreviousNext

Return to Game Threads

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests