Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Game Over - Mafia Victory!

[mhsmith0]

See? Telleo made the same interpretation I did. One of us, max, could be scum.

You get why "well telleo did it too" is a poor defense, right?

You were scumreading me for interpretations like that one.

I was a. curious why you didn't have the same problem with Telleo and b. saying that why are you scumreading me for this when it's definitely possible for a townie to have that reaction.

If you want to find the specific links to where it happened, I can talk about my thoughts in greater detail. I'm not going to go link/quote hunting with 2 hours left to live. This is basically a service on my end to the town that has chosen to mislynch me; I'm not going to put energy into the nitty gritty that I don't have to. That's probably a bit prickish of me, so sorry about that, but I'm not exactly full of sunshine and happiness about how things have gone down so *shrugs*

[Jordan767]

FWIW the smith I had been wanting to see seems to have emerged overnight, and I doubt it's a coincidence that this happened after he resigned himself to his lynch and stopped talking about himself. Too little, too late for me to do anything other than go into this lynch resigned to the probability of seeing D3.

Remember Fable 8? Chuck's giant post of "Further townKeirador makes somewhere else to go when he's unhappy with his current vote"?

The link is here for anyone who wants to bask in its large and multicolored glory.

That didn't actually apply that game. I was misrepresenting you to try and get some pressure off me.

But why should it not apply here?

[mhsmith0]

I was aware of the reads list. I was just looking for a little more detail.

This strikes me as one of Crunkus' more-frustrated games (I've read a couple of games in full and a veritable shitton of AARs) and I think on the whole he tends to get more frustrated as town than as scum. So if anything he should be looking towny for this instead of scummy IMO. Would appreciate clarification on this point from someone who's played with him before instead of just read it.

I'm asking for the quick version of WHY you'd be surprised if it were SF, ZZ, or Telleo.

Telleo mainly for the associatives with happymeal, most notably his whining about why I wasn't treating him the same as I'd treated telleo's derpclear. Actually that probably gets into level of thread awareness (unless you think it was fake) so maybe it may be productive of you to consider people simply weren't much around between the start of the game and when that went down, or who naturally don't talk much in scum chat. I forget who was posting when so that's a thought process that might be productive, not something I'm gonna do in the next 2 hours.

SF has been a town read throughout. Tonal early, but overall she's been more substantive than she's been as a wolf. In plague mafia she made a BAD vote on me (who subbed in for crunkus), and I wrote it off partially because I was distracted by other stuff and partially because I kinda wrote her off as someone who might have made a really bad vote as town. In Legends of Tomorrow (the most recent game) she just did a whole bunch of wolfy stuff (you could ISO skim me there for fun - search.php?f=306&t=54398&author=mhsmith0 ), and there are a bunch of things I questioned or pushed her on, and I don't recall much of anything pinging me here. MAYBE I'm underestimating her scum game, MAYBE she decided she was gonna work SUPER hard as scum this game (even though she's noted that she's getting tired of randing wolf), but the massively more likely explanation is that she's just town, she's just happy to be town, and she's just playing her standard town game.

I also thought that she did a LOT of work in evaluating her read of me, and I don't really get the sense that as scum she especially bothers to do all that much in-depth work, and if she was scum I don't see why THAT was worth the bother, since a pocketed dead townie isn't super valuable anyway.

ZZ has just overall pinged me as town. He's someone else that has bothered to put work into reading me and I recall him struggling over his read in a way that didn't particularly look fake. I haven't entirely agreed with everything he's said, but nothing has pinged me, and nothing pinged me about Harb either (though Harb was a very low count poster so *shrugs*)

[mhsmith0]

FWIW the smith I had been wanting to see seems to have emerged overnight, and I doubt it's a coincidence that this happened after he resigned himself to his lynch and stopped talking about himself. Too little, too late for me to do anything other than go into this lynch resigned to the probability of seeing D3.

Remember Fable 8? Chuck's giant post of "Further townKeirador makes somewhere else to go when he's unhappy with his current vote"?

The link is here for anyone who wants to bask in its large and multicolored glory.

That didn't actually apply that game. I was misrepresenting you to try and get some pressure off me.

But why should it not apply here?

Perhaps it should.
OTOH, the only productive place for a vote to go (beyond being VERY sure of nailing scum) is crunkus. Another day phase of crunkus v smith would be disastrous. One of us simply has to go.

[Jordan767]

FWIW the smith I had been wanting to see seems to have emerged overnight, and I doubt it's a coincidence that this happened after he resigned himself to his lynch and stopped talking about himself. Too little, too late for me to do anything other than go into this lynch resigned to the probability of seeing D3.

Remember Fable 8? Chuck's giant post of "Further townKeirador makes somewhere else to go when he's unhappy with his current vote"?

The link is here for anyone who wants to bask in its large and multicolored glory.

That didn't actually apply that game. I was misrepresenting you to try and get some pressure off me.

But why should it not apply here?

Perhaps it should.
OTOH, the only productive place for a vote to go (beyond being VERY sure of nailing scum) is crunkus. Another day phase of crunkus v smith would be disastrous. One of us simply has to go.

Scoping out my vote for tomorrow. Trying to triage Keir vs sjg here.

FWIW I'm super conflicted on you, what you're saying still looks scummy but the way you're saying it looks townie. Like, with 80 minutes left and 2 people around, there's little to no way scum!you is still playing right now. But I agree that one of you has to die.

[Jordan767]

Zoomzip mentioned something earlier in the day (quoting thewysecat) about how if you push back against a runaway lynch the people who follow you on it may very well be scum. It was here. I pushed back on the Happymeal lynch. Who followed? Keir.

Has Keir advanced anything new on the smith lynch, either, or is he just parroting other points?

ISO run to come. Stay tuned.

I feel like Keir might be the scum here rather than sjg.

[Jordan767]

I was aware of the reads list. I was just looking for a little more detail.

This strikes me as one of Crunkus' more-frustrated games (I've read a couple of games in full and a veritable shitton of AARs) and I think on the whole he tends to get more frustrated as town than as scum. So if anything he should be looking towny for this instead of scummy IMO. Would appreciate clarification on this point from someone who's played with him before instead of just read it.

I'm asking for the quick version of WHY you'd be surprised if it were SF, ZZ, or Telleo.

Telleo mainly for the associatives with happymeal, most notably his whining about why I wasn't treating him the same as I'd treated telleo's derpclear. Actually that probably gets into level of thread awareness (unless you think it was fake) so maybe it may be productive of you to consider people simply weren't much around between the start of the game and when that went down, or who naturally don't talk much in scum chat. I forget who was posting when so that's a thought process that might be productive, not something I'm gonna do in the next 2 hours.

SF has been a town read throughout. Tonal early, but overall she's been more substantive than she's been as a wolf. In plague mafia she made a BAD vote on me (who subbed in for crunkus), and I wrote it off partially because I was distracted by other stuff and partially because I kinda wrote her off as someone who might have made a really bad vote as town. In Legends of Tomorrow (the most recent game) she just did a whole bunch of wolfy stuff (you could ISO skim me there for fun - search.php?f=306&t=54398&author=mhsmith0 ), and there are a bunch of things I questioned or pushed her on, and I don't recall much of anything pinging me here. MAYBE I'm underestimating her scum game, MAYBE she decided she was gonna work SUPER hard as scum this game (even though she's noted that she's getting tired of randing wolf), but the massively more likely explanation is that she's just town, she's just happy to be town, and she's just playing her standard town game.

I also thought that she did a LOT of work in evaluating her read of me, and I don't really get the sense that as scum she especially bothers to do all that much in-depth work, and if she was scum I don't see why THAT was worth the bother, since a pocketed dead townie isn't super valuable anyway.

ZZ has just overall pinged me as town. He's someone else that has bothered to put work into reading me and I recall him struggling over his read in a way that didn't particularly look fake. I haven't entirely agreed with everything he's said, but nothing has pinged me, and nothing pinged me about Harb either (though Harb was a very low count poster so *shrugs*)

Gotcha. Thanks.

[mhsmith0]

...
Scoping out my vote for tomorrow. Trying to triage Keir vs sjg here.

FWIW I'm super conflicted on you, what you're saying still looks scummy but the way you're saying it looks townie. Like, with 80 minutes left and 2 people around, there's little to no way scum!you is still playing right now. But I agree that one of you has to die.

I feel like it's been fairly obvious for quite some time now, but it's 8v1 near nightless, and a mislynch isn't the end of the world, and frankly this game has utterly drained me for what should be very very obvious reasons so I'm really not much concerned w my mislynch anymore.

[Keirador]

FWIW the smith I had been wanting to see seems to have emerged overnight, and I doubt it's a coincidence that this happened after he resigned himself to his lynch and stopped talking about himself. Too little, too late for me to do anything other than go into this lynch resigned to the probability of seeing D3.

Remember Fable 8? Chuck's giant post of "Further townKeirador makes somewhere else to go when he's unhappy with his current vote"?

The link is here for anyone who wants to bask in its large and multicolored glory.

That didn't actually apply that game. I was misrepresenting you to try and get some pressure off me.

But why should it not apply here?

. . . I was town that game. As you knew at the time. UDC's belief about townK's abilities and inclinations was proven definitively wrong. Why in the world should a disproven idea about my town play apply here to determine my alignment?

[Jordan767]

FWIW the smith I had been wanting to see seems to have emerged overnight, and I doubt it's a coincidence that this happened after he resigned himself to his lynch and stopped talking about himself. Too little, too late for me to do anything other than go into this lynch resigned to the probability of seeing D3.

Remember Fable 8? Chuck's giant post of "Further townKeirador makes somewhere else to go when he's unhappy with his current vote"?

The link is here for anyone who wants to bask in its large and multicolored glory.

That didn't actually apply that game. I was misrepresenting you to try and get some pressure off me.

But why should it not apply here?

. . . I was town that game. As you knew at the time. UDC's belief about townK's abilities and inclinations was proven definitively wrong. Why in the world should a disproven idea about my town play apply here to determine my alignment?

UDC's understanding about the scenario in which TownK was in was also fundamentally flawed; I was representing you as deeply dissatisfied with your ZZ vote when that was in reality not the case. Due to this I stand by his assessment of your town play based on the information he had.