Mafia CLVI: Charity Mafia: -- Pure of Heart Win!

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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby condude1 » 10 Dec 2016, 20:11

Happymeal wrote:Also, what's with the whole "scum control their kills" thing? How do we know that?

The Rules, which Happymeal seems to Ignore. wrote:
Night Kill
The corrupted players may select one player to execute a night kill subject to any other mechanics in the game. Corrupted players will agree on which of their players will execute this action and on a target. If they can not agree on a target, no night kill will be executed. If they agree on a target but on the player to take the night kill action, the GM will select a player.


I think this answers your question.

@Everyone, I've only seen HM play town, is this something that he would fake as scum? Scum would most certainly know the answer to this question. My gut tells me it's null, but I've said that for 2-3 games straight and been wrong on every one.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby condude1 » 10 Dec 2016, 20:14

Keirador wrote:
condude1 wrote:
sjg11 wrote:
Or am I misunderstanding something? What does buffing mean?


Probably something to do with making other roles more powerful. A debuff would be a framer, so I assume the corresponding buff would be a role that makes the cop infallible, or something?

Order of Resolution
Night actions will be fulfilled in the following order to the extent they are in the game:
Other
Redirecting/Blocking
Deceiving/Clarifying
Protecting
Buff/Debuff
Investigative
Killing

You are not correct about your assumptions here. I will not elaborate further.


You're right. The roles I proposed would be Deceiving and Clarifying. Thanks.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby condude1 » 10 Dec 2016, 20:22

Happymeal wrote:
condude1 wrote:I just don't get harb's plan, and how it works out. I target a scumread... what if I'm the vig? I'm giving my scumread the power to shoot someone tonight. What if I'm targeted by a doc? Isn't this pretty much just fire everything randomly?


It's good I finally get to talk about this. I think I'm within agreement with Harb's plan. But here's what I'm wondering, do we still lynch? So, basically, we're lynching the collective vote and then lynching another scum read? I think that's a little too much to be honest, there's a lot of ways I can imagine the scum possibly messing with it, but I also think taking the risk that early might not be optimal. On top of that, there's the chance that scum kill our secondary target. I think this whole "kill another scum read" should only be reserved for policy killing of an inactive.

So I agree with the following of Harb's plan:

Split into two groups. The collective town votes for two things:

1. they vote their towniest player and then one group targets him with all abilities in that group.
2. They vote for yes or no to a policy shot (the only one acceptable is fuddin). If we do not agree on a policy lynch, then the second group uses all their abilities on a player voted "most scummy". With that guy, the doc and vig (or just vig if it's a policy shot) use their abilities on one of the guys they trust targeting that guy.

I don't like the idea of going gung ho with the vig shot, we could end up in a worst case scenario tomorrow if we allow it through. I think we should play it safe and adhere to this plan with these adjustments.


That's... My plan, except slightly modified. Harb's is that we split into two groups publicly known to aim at their scumreads or townreads. The vig gives someone aiming at their scumread a shot (If he exists), and everyone else sorts their roles on their own discretion. We all reveal who we targeted tomorrow, and have a great time analyzing the data.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby condude1 » 10 Dec 2016, 20:24

Happymeal wrote:
condude1 wrote:As for my scumreads, currently I'm thinking that there is probably a scum on the Sjg wagon (or Sjg himself is scum). The "slip" was interesting, but I think that the people that voted Sjg should know a bit better than to just shout "SLIP!" and vote Sjg. If Sjg is town, then the mafia would love a chance to off him D1.



I find this odd that you say that scum is on the sjg wagon yet you also are under the belief that scum could also be sjg. Do you believe that a scum Justy would be so eager to jump on a sjg bandwagon so early into the game? It's just as easy to dismiss it as a mistake, but one of the earlier votes on sjg must be a scum partner trying to get the vote wagon onto his chum? How does that benefit them?


I quickly clarified that I meant one of the scum on the wagon OR Sjg. If Sjg's scum, I expect that's a squeaky clean wagon, since the slip was not particularly damning with a bit of thought, and his buddy would be sure to jump on that.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Thyrfing » 10 Dec 2016, 20:27

Telleo wrote:
Thyrfing wrote:
Telleo wrote:So I know from my perspective why that seems scummy. Why does it seem scummy from your perspective? After all, you know you're town, right? What scum motive is there for Sjg to hand wave towards you without real analysis?

Didn't specify cause I thought it obvious... throwing mud around townies and laying the bases for making cases for today or future lynches, that's why scum attack townies, yes? It's usually a "scumslip" to just mention someone to divert attention but with no real nothing behind it...


Ah. So see, I was concerned by it because it felt like potential bussing. As though Scum Sjg was going to push a case on Town Con, and saw an opportunity to throw shade at his buddy Thyrfing, without actually making a case against him. Hence why I pushed Sjg to actually engage on you.

Obviously, that's not an indicator to you, because you know your own alignment. Does Scum SJG push a case on Town Con, and at the same time just kinda glance at town Thyrfing? I don't think so. I'm not sure why you do. Could you elaborate on this?

Consider this a townslip, I hadn't even considered that alternative, but it obviously fits as well here.
I was thinking of making a case against someone and at the same time throwing mud at others to decrease town cred, set up an alternative lynch or set up a lynch for coming days...
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Thyrfing » 10 Dec 2016, 20:32

Telleo wrote:
Thyrfing wrote:
Telleo wrote:I expected to get exactly what I asked for. Why do you find my question to be a dangerous breach of security, but asking about the motivations behind it isn't?

Yes, I do. Asking the town questions about their roles with no objective other than knowing information about their roles (that's what you just stated you expected to get) is scummy as hell. As in information fishing.
Questioning scummy behaviour is my job as a townie.


Wow. Ok. So obviously I have a reason for asking that isn't "I just felt like it." Why do you believe the answer to my question is dangerous? I'd like an actual answer please, not just "info fishing is bad." And, in light of that, why do you believe me sharing my intentions with the question is not dangerous?

Missed that, sorry :oops:

It is dangerous because it has implications and information about the roles. Isn't that really enough?

I think any townie should be able to explain the motivation behind their actions. You just felt like it? Did you not think that it might give information to the town?
I find it hard to belive that you just asked such a question without any motivation behind it. Seriously.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby sjg11 » 10 Dec 2016, 21:34

Happymeal wrote:
sjg11 wrote:I'm assuming the game is 7:2 simply because it's the logical starting numbers for a 9 player game.

6:3... we get one mislynch and a vig kill and we lose... ridiculously unbalanced in favour of the Mafia.

8:1 is ridiculously unbalanced in favour of the town.

7:2 is simply the logical ratio for a 9 player game. 3 Mafia is a stupidly high number of Mafia and 1 Mafia is a stupidly low number of Mafia.


I think this is a fair assumption, but I'd like to know if you considered other possibilities as to why the other numbers could work.

For ex. what if town was composed of many doctors in a 6:3 scenario or if in an 8:1 scenario there were roles that would change based upon scenarios happening. I doubt that's the case myself, but why did you exclude those possibilities entirely?

I did not consider either of those scenarios to be honest with you. To be honest I didn't think of either scenario at the time. The assumption was largely based on my thought process when designing Fable 8, a game of the same size.

sjg11 wrote:The main point of Thyrfing's argument is very similar to condude's namely that the vig plan could be disrupted by an unlikely busdriver role (for the record I also feel that condude would be more alert to the unlikeliness of a busdriver in the game than Thingy would given condude's greater experience as a GM).

It's also largely because I don't get why people would oppose my plan and allow for potentially uncontrolled vig kills within the game. The fact that two players have done so already, for fairly weak reasons, worries me. Hence the vote.


I still want to know why you went to question condude without even addressing thingy. It's not just they had similar comments, but thingy's content was less and easier to respond to, but you just ignored it, why?

I didn't ignore Thingy. I addressed Thingy's concerns and responded to him. Hell I also mentioned Thingy in my condude post.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby sjg11 » 10 Dec 2016, 21:39

Keirador wrote:
condude1 wrote:
Keirador wrote:Unvote, this level of confidence from sjg about his assumptions is not out of character.


Then why did you place the vote in the first place?

I started to compose an answer and then realized sjg's given explanations that I found fairly credible would also be what scumsjg who had actually slipped would say. So I'm mu. Not going to revote right now, though, as I'm still significantly behind so any vote of mine is immediately obsolete.

Well yeah I imagine I would have a similar response as Mafia... not sure how that makes it indicative though or devalues the explanation itself.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Happymeal » 10 Dec 2016, 21:43

@sjg, I noticed after that post was made because I was way behind. I'm pretty much caught up now and am probably gonna be responding to everything else that I haven't yet to do.
It's true I'm nervous, but why do you think I'm mad?
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby sjg11 » 10 Dec 2016, 21:43

Keirador wrote:
Harb wrote:
Keirador wrote:Uhh, what? Not "assuming this game starts at 7:2," or "if this game starts at 7:2," just "This game starts at 7:2?"

sjg11


Wait for it wait for it...


Oh man I just made a music recommendation AND IT WASN'T EVEN HAMILTON.

Truly if you're not listening to Hamilton you're doing yourself a disservice.


More relevantly, I'm not sure how to take it that several other players noticed that same "slip" I did. I'm not crazy for having seen it; there's something there. But for now I've lynched sjg enough times for things I saw as incontrovertible slips that I'm willing to contemplate reprieve.

What's a "Hamilton"?
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