Mafia CXXXVII: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread Town Victory!

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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby Blackswimmer » 17 Feb 2015, 22:53

shadowfriend1 wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this thing is really town sided? Yes, there are more mafia then regular proportions, but they could so easily shoot themselves (via aspirant). I have observed that people are not great at scum hunting in general (no offense ;) ). The aspirant will have to scumhunt in reverse, obviously. This seems like quite a task, which is why I think that any hidden mechanics would usually benefit the mafia(my guess atleast). For example, I doubt there is another killing role in the game because they would increase the likelyhood of the aspirant dying. This is great for town, but very bad for mafia, thus I think this would disrupt the balance of the game and therefor not have been be included.

Ok, what is this whole paragraph supposed to accomplish? All I'm getting from this is that the Aspirant needs to figure out who the other scum are (no duh), and that you think there's unlikely to be another killing role (true, but not relevant to anything at this juncture). Again, what's the aim of all this?

PPE:
Harb wrote:
Blackswimmer wrote:.... Dislike this. Scumhunting is the only way we're going to use the lynch against the scum, as well as get meaningful vote data. What do you suggest we do all day, sit around chatting about sports? Anyway, if you genuinely believe this, surely you'll want to ban all posting, lynch at random, and just play the numbers game? Enlighten me on specifically what you think we should be doing, please.


Do you really think shadow is calling for us not to scumhunt?

Unsure what the heck Shadow is calling for, really. It's a soft-push against scumhunting, which I hate. I want more clarification on exactly what she thinks is our optimum course of action.
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby shirt » 17 Feb 2015, 23:21

dwilts:
your 'yeah me neither', response to BS'didn't find a specific loophole here', doesn't mitigate the 'hide behind tactic of other' approach
also 3 teams from your perspective?
i see no reason to consider aspirant and mafia as different teams (sure connection-tells are substantially weaker, but playing on those D1, usually a bad idea)

Blackswimmer wrote:
shirt wrote:keirador
For having communicated N0.
Yes that indeed means,
I confirm I have read the rules

Run by me why this is scummy. Also, why is no one else interested in this?

you claim to have read the rules:
The rules do not explicitly limit the means of communication N0 (on deadline, thread-posts end)
They do explicity state 'the only action N0 is mafia-communication'
Keir is either mafia or broke the rules (yes i also assumed the latter (and the or not being exclusive))
his reaction to my accusation, just fine.

as for why no-one else is interested:
i'd guess the 'do not scumhunt the first couple of pages'-idea probably.
But yes the vote was more to break that, than the idea i actually caught scum already.
Too bad really that you're the one who'se actually hunting at the moment, with harb closely behind it (exactly as expected, therefore nothing to learn there(yet))

Harb wrote:Do you really think shadow is calling for us not to scumhunt?

I sure do, or requesting the lynch of the top-scumhunter (because 'must be aspirant')
the 'people aren't any good at scumhunting (no offense)' call to say it's useless for town, but needed for aspirant,next to it, really doesn't sit well with me
shadow
And before a 'your votes mean nothing'-accusation comes in.
Yes this is one i also would have made if i didn't try to kickstart scumhunting.
dwilts is my nr2 read atm
I'm literally a five headed dragon... Who cares!
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby Crunkus_old » 17 Feb 2015, 23:36

dwiltseredu wrote:
Crunkus wrote:I have no role that would make me appear to be anything that I am not upon any sort of hypothetical accurate investigation.


crunkus i feel this is very open ended because essentially you are saying when investigated you will show up as nothing you are not...

why word this statement so open when in my open it would be better to have a closed end to it so that not many people question it?...


I'm not sure what there is to question.

Do you feel this way about anyone that does not explicitly state in their initial post that they are town?

@ Keirador: How do you feel about the point dwilts brought up?
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby Keirador » 17 Feb 2015, 23:40

shadowfriend1 wrote:
shadowfriend1 wrote:The aspirant will have to scumhunt in reverse, obviously.

Oh, one more thing. This means that scumhunting is not necessarily a town thing to do. The Aspirant will be intensely interested (maybe even more so than townies) in finding out who the mafia are so they can not kill them.
~sf1 8-)

Except the Aspirant has no interest in publicly catching scum, remember. The Aspirant wants to publicly appear to scumhunt, but the Aspirant does not want to actually publicly catch scum. Cuz, y'know, we'll lynch them.
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby Crunkus_old » 17 Feb 2015, 23:41

Blackswimmer wrote:Ok, what is this whole paragraph supposed to accomplish? All I'm getting from this is that the Aspirant needs to figure out who the other scum are (no duh), and that you think there's unlikely to be another killing role (true, but not relevant to anything at this juncture). Again, what's the aim of all this?


Do you expect every town made observation made at this stage in the game to have an "aim" in the context that you are using that word here?

Blackswimmer wrote:Unsure what the heck Shadow is calling for, really. It's a soft-push against scumhunting, which I hate. I want more clarification on exactly what she thinks is our optimum course of action.


A soft push against scumhunting.

What is your experience with this player in previous games if any BS? The BS there stands is shorthand for your name. It strikes me suddenly that it could be read either way. :)
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby Keirador » 17 Feb 2015, 23:44

Crunkus wrote:@ Keirador: How do you feel about the point dwilts brought up?

The "point" that your non-miller claim was too open-ended? I think he, like many players this early, is just grasping at anything. I don't share his concern.
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby Crunkus_old » 17 Feb 2015, 23:54

shirt wrote:you claim to have read the rules:
The rules do not explicitly limit the means of communication N0 (on deadline, thread-posts end)
They do explicity state 'the only action N0 is mafia-communication'
Keir is either mafia or broke the rules (yes i also assumed the latter (and the or not being exclusive))
his reaction to my accusation, just fine.


Shirt...blink if you are serious about this being the basis for a tell on Keirador. If you aren't...just stop talking about it.

shirt wrote:as for why no-one else is interested:
i'd guess the 'do not scumhunt the first couple of pages'-idea probably.
But yes the vote was more to break that, than the idea i actually caught scum already.


OK. So it has nothing to do with a tell. Why are you going through the trouble of setting up a binary context to that situation if you don't actually find it relevant? Are you hoping someone will piggy back on this terrible idea and expose themselves as goofy scum? If so, am I irritating you?

shirt wrote:Too bad really that you're the one who'se actually hunting at the moment, with harb closely behind it (exactly as expected, therefore nothing to learn there(yet))


Where are you on this scale, to be fair, judged by the same accounting? Do you see your role now as encouraging positive behaviour?

shirt wrote:
Harb wrote:Do you really think shadow is calling for us not to scumhunt?

I sure do, or requesting the lynch of the top-scumhunter (because 'must be aspirant')


Then why not develop that lead, and try to make that abundantly clear by continuing to talk to shadowfiend about it in a clever way...so it's not simply a matter of you asserting this to be the only possible explanation for that statement?

Do you feel this is an example of stellar scum-hunting on your part? Are you currently leading by example?

shirt wrote:the 'people aren't any good at scumhunting (no offense)' call to say it's useless for town, but needed for aspirant,next to it, really doesn't sit well with me
shadow


I don't care what doesn't sit well with you. I care about who you think has actually offered a legitimately good reason to think they might be mafia.

Is that what you believe? Are you interested in developing what may be a preliminary read, persuading us about a read you take seriously, or in advertising that you have reads and are engaged in scumhunting?

shirt wrote:And before a 'your votes mean nothing'-accusation comes in.
Yes this is one i also would have made if i didn't try to kickstart scumhunting.
dwilts is my nr2 read atm


I find the best way to encourage scumhunting is to do it. Not show what it doesn't look like. You're spouting uninvested accusations. That's not scumhunting. That's not encouraging scumhunting.

If you are going to be mr. light the fire under our collective asses, then do it. Don't play at it. Is what you're doing what you want from people, truly?

What is your personal experience with the diversity with which people approach the start of the game?
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby Crunkus_old » 17 Feb 2015, 23:55

Keirador wrote:
Crunkus wrote:@ Keirador: How do you feel about the point dwilts brought up?

The "point" that your non-miller claim was too open-ended? I think he, like many players this early, is just grasping at anything. I don't share his concern.


I ask because you essentially copied my statement...and made a change to it...that reflects that perhaps you do prefer clarity in that regard. At least when you're the one making the statement.

You feel me?
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Day 1)

Postby Crunkus_old » 18 Feb 2015, 00:02

Keirador wrote:
There's nothing in my "role" that indicates I wouldn't come up town on investigation.


[quote"Crunkus, the post directly before Keirador"]I have no role that would make me appear to be anything that I am not upon any sort of hypothetical accurate investigation.[/quote]

For reference.
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Re: A Shot in the Dark Game Thread (Night 0)

Postby Crunkus_old » 18 Feb 2015, 00:10

Izzmund wrote: I would also suggest that we not have any discussion of how we anticipate the mafia to group/not group in the voting given this twist on the NK, at least D1, maybe even a little longer depending on how the first lynch goes. No need to let them know what we may or may not be looking for.


I don't follow your reasoning here. When you say "no need to let them know what we may or may not be looking for", what do you mean specifically...and how specifically does the twist on the night kill make this different exactly?

I myself do not see anything in the rules that makes it a good idea to not disclose information we'd normally find useful to disclose in the exact same set up without the twist.
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