Fastest Wins

Anything about the Diplomacy game in general.

Fastest Wins

Postby BaronRichard » 26 Aug 2020, 01:34

With a slow day at the office, I had plenty of time to muse on Diplomacy and Chess.

Both are entirely dependent on the player's skill. Both have given names to typical aspects (maneuvers, positions, etc.) of the game. Both often end in stalemates or draws.

But Chess has puzzles and problems.

Diplomacy, as far as I know, doesn't.

So here's one: What is the fastest possible win (collect 18 supply centers) for each country - if there are no other players in the game, and the "enemy" forces just sit there (I believe that's called "civil disorder")?

What about if the forces of an enemy country support each other where possible? Paris supports Brest, Vienna and Budapest support each other, and both support Trieste (but Trieste can't support them).....

Might be fun to work out....
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby jay65536 » 26 Aug 2020, 02:27

Diplomacy absolutely does have puzzles and problems. Especially problems.

There are tons of games that can give rise to interesting problems. I am sure I can find some looking back even on my own games, and I don’t have many on this site. I think people just don’t really publish them—they tend to keep them to themselves for their own study, kinda like how competitive chess used to be many decades ago.
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby BaronRichard » 26 Aug 2020, 04:28

jay65536 wrote:Diplomacy absolutely does have puzzles and problems. Especially problems.

There are tons of games that can give rise to interesting problems. I am sure I can find some looking back even on my own games, and I don’t have many on this site. I think people just don’t really publish them—they tend to keep them to themselves for their own study, kinda like how competitive chess used to be many decades ago.


Official Secrets, then? :lol:
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby Jack007 » 26 Aug 2020, 13:06

The fastest wine I had was a bottle of Rosé in 7 minutes, in Trapani, Sicily.

:D
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby 0wl » 26 Aug 2020, 14:46

I managed to get a solo in 1905 as Russia on this site a few years ago. I think that was mostly due to mistakes by other players though.
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby Iamnobody » 26 Aug 2020, 15:37

Is this like "Name that Tune"? I can take Munich from Spain in 3 moves.
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby mjparrett » 26 Aug 2020, 16:46

My first solo on this site was also a Russian 1905 win. 127709 is the game number. Again, from memory it involved some really bad play and some NMRs, but even so I was quite proud of it. Not sure if a 1904 win is possible (maybe as Germany that has the most amount of centres within easy reach?)

I think there is a lot in common between Chess and Diplomacy, and they definitely both do have puzzles to work out. If he moves that unit, that allows me to support myself here, which in turn allows me to cut support over there.... Plenty of 50/50 guesses (which I am awful at) and other conundrums.
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby BaronRichard » 29 Aug 2020, 01:07

While everyone loves bragging about their Personal Fastest, that's not quite what I had in mind.

I'm thinking "If there were no other players, how quickly could you get 18 centers?"

Let me use Austria as an example. It should be easy, since there are plenty of centers in easy reach.

The fleet in Trieste moves down the coast and takes Greece; the two armies move to grab Serbia and Rumania. That's another three.

Let's build another fleet in Trieste (to help us acquire Italy), and armies in Vienna and Budapest.

In the Spring of 1901, we'll move Greece to the Aegean and Serbia to Bulgaria, putting us in position to knock out the army in Constantinople (using the Aegean fleet, so we can keep Bulgaria and gain naval access to the Black Sea). The armies will move north: Rumania to Ukraine, Budapest to Galicia, and Vienna to Bohemia. Move the Trieste fleet to the Adriatic.

In the Fall, we take Constantinople and Warsaw. With Bulgaria, we now have nine centers.

Moscow, Sevastopol, Ankara, and Venice should be conquered next, for 13 centers in 3 years.... I'll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader (which is what this whole thing is anyway).
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby jay65536 » 29 Aug 2020, 03:40

Vie-Boh is actually a poor move in your example. If you move to Tri instead, you capture Venice in Fall 02. Then you have a solo in 1904. You can do it by capturing all the Eastern centers plus Spain, with maybe some others as gravy.

I am pretty sure 1904 is fastest possible in your puzzle since you specify the other units are there in civil disorder.
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Re: Fastest Wins

Postby BaronRichard » 18 Sep 2020, 02:24

Working on an empty board is its own puzzle; I'm considering the situation where the other centers are occupied, but the units are inactive (civil disorder).

ENGLAND

Being an island, England seems like it would be tricky since you’d have to balance fleets and armies. However, there are plenty of free centers in easy reach. The plan illustrates the need to cross the well-known “No Man’s Land” band of centerless territories crossing the map diagonally from the southwest to the northeast.

Spring 1901: The fleets move to the North Sea and English Channel, and the army heads to Yorkshire.

Fall 1901: Yorkshire is convoyed to Norway, and the Channel fleet lands in Belgium (5 centers total). I’d build a fleet in London and an army in Liverpool.

Spring 1902: Norway moves to Sweden, the North Sea takes Denmark, and Belgium invades Holland. London moves to the Channel, and Liverpool to Wales (setting up for a convoy in the fall).

Fall 1902: The only move needed is to convoy Wales to Picardy.

That’s all the easy stuff; now we have to think. We’ve got the full three builds this turn. I’d suggest armies in London and Liverpool, and a fleet in Edinburgh.

Spring 1903: Brest falls to an army convoyed from London with support from Picardy, and Holland takes Kiel with Danish support. In a repeat of the Spring 1901 moves, Edinburgh heads to the North Sea and Liverpool moves to Yorkshire. Sweden can move to Finland.

Fall 1903: Yorkshire is convoyed to Holland while Denmark moves into the Baltic Sea. Picardy takes Paris (Brest supports) giving us three more centers for the year (11 total).

Berlin, Marseilles, and either Spain or Portugal should be conquered in 1904, bringing the total to 14 centers. Munich and the unconquered one in Iberia should fall in 1905, giving a total of 16 centers. If you’ve built enough fleets and moved them properly, Tunis and St. Petersburg will put you over the top in 1906. But you’ll have to wait until the Fall turn to take them, because you have to cross that “No Man’s Land” first….
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