PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby condude1 » 11 Apr 2018, 04:47

kimbyrle wrote:I like the idea of a general default ruleset we can link to. I'll confess that part of why I fucked a couple things up in my first game here was that I have some neuro-atypical issues with maintaining focus and reading comprehension throughout large posts with a lot of different formatting, and I lost track of things while trying to absorb it all. Separating it out and having it cleanly formatted would certainly help me with that.

A few small suggestions:

1: Play to your victory condition. This means no throwing in the towel and no emotional outbreaks that hurt your team. The GM is expected to contact the player before taking action on this rule.

I got into a tiff with Starwatcher in Galaxy Quest over interpretation of this regarding the Kool-Aid Plan, and consequently my own phrasing of it specifies that players may pursue strategies they believe in good faith will help them win the game, and does not mean they are compelled to pursue the most mathematically sound strategy. If people wanna get pedantic, let's just cut that off at the trailhead.Ah, I'll rephrase that. Good point.

5: Activity. STAY ACTIVE! I ask for a minimum of 30-45 minutes per day of posting, excluding reading time. Everyone falls behind a few pages from time to time, but if you find that you’re posting everything in a vacuum, and are posting very little each day, please sub out, for the integrity of the game. I will replace you if I find that you are seriously detracting from the flow of the game for an extended period of time.

I have started using phrasing that I expect players to put in enough time to respect the time their fellow players invest in the game, and that it usually means about 1 - 2 hours per day, even if that isn't the absolute minimum enforceable level. I think it does everyone a disservice if we underestimate how much time people really need to put in to keep up.Note that I am not including reading time in that estimate. I like to separate these because if you're a slow reader, it might take an hour or two to catch up. So, I think "Stay caught up AND post 45 minutes per day" is a happy medium. Feel free to disagree and discuss it here though!

7: Substitutions. Please do not discuss substitutions. Substitutions are already not pleasant situations, and using substitutions to determine alignment is metagaming, and compromising the game’s integrity more than it already has been compromised. If you want or need a substitute, PM the GM and you will be subbed out as soon as possible.

I include language here from the open-door policy used in my East Coast roleplaying scene: "Players may request a sub for any reason; you are ultimately more important than a game." Personally, I've powered through some major moments of "I'm not sure I can handle this" levels of stress, and while I think most of us are capable of regrouping and coming back to the game in that kind of situation, if someone is seriously affected I want them to know I won't be angry at them for bringing that to me.Fair point. If this is a broad ruleset, I should include stuff like this.

8.1: Don't be discriminatory. No homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist etc. comments. AT ABSOLUTE MINIMUM you will be harshly reprimanded by GM and mods alike, and if we deem it anything other than a sloppy choice of words, or it is a repeat offense, or it is met by anything other than a complete, unequivocal apology, you can expect to be modkilled (or replaced) and blacklisted by the majority of the GMs in the mafia forums.

Please put in here to use players' preferred pronouns if requested. I also like including misogynistic in the list, which I realize is kind of a subset of sexist but also overlaps with a lot of homophobic language.Hmmm, I figured sexist was an umbrella term covering misogynistic. I might add "Or any other term that is derogatory towards a specific group", which covers a lot of more obscure terms that are still inappropriate.

My suggestion for phrasing the GM stuff at the end:

9.1 During the game, the GM is always right. GM rulings may be discussed in the game when relevant to play, but save disputes for the AAR. It is assumed that GMs are all acting to their utmost to ensure that game integrity is as intact as possible and games run smoothly, and sometimes GMs have to make calls that may be unpopular in order to preserve overall balance. If you actually suspect a GM (for some strange reason) is not working towards this end, please contact a moderator, but be warned that we will, in the vast majority of situations, side with the GM.

9.2 Constructive criticism and discussion of frustration is welcomed in the AAR, though remember we're all human and nobody wants to feel like shit for mistakes or having had to make a tough call. Try to respect everyone and be mature, even when you're upset.

I'm a fan in general of encouraging people to remember "We're all humans" and reinforcing the general spirit of "Don't be a dick."

This also definitely needs a rule for "Do not discuss the game outside of official communication channels. These may differ from game to game, but any external communication between players is always prohibited. This includes discussing the game on other threads within the forum, and applies to dead players as well."


@Smith, your comments have been noted as well. Edits will be incoming.
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby kimpossible » 11 Apr 2018, 14:00

condude1 wrote:
8.1: Don't be discriminatory. No homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist etc. comments. AT ABSOLUTE MINIMUM you will be harshly reprimanded by GM and mods alike, and if we deem it anything other than a sloppy choice of words, or it is a repeat offense, or it is met by anything other than a complete, unequivocal apology, you can expect to be modkilled (or replaced) and blacklisted by the majority of the GMs in the mafia forums.

Please put in here to use players' preferred pronouns if requested. I also like including misogynistic in the list, which I realize is kind of a subset of sexist but also overlaps with a lot of homophobic language.

Hmmm, I figured sexist was an umbrella term covering misogynistic. I might add "Or any other term that is derogatory towards a specific group", which covers a lot of more obscure terms that are still inappropriate.

I guess part of why I favor the term misogynistic is it covers gender identity without sex identity which is a separate thing. There's obviously some argument there about whether that then falls under transphobic, I just figure it's a major umbrella term that it doesn't hurt to include and still isn't getting overly granular. It's also been my personal experience that sexism I've encountered is all inherently misogynistic.

I do like "other forms of group-targeted hate speech" or similar. And please do include the request for using preferred pronouns, however the rest of it gets phrased.
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby condude1 » 11 Apr 2018, 19:32

shadowface wrote:My two cents on the GM issue is that it isn't really black and white. Personally I think transparency and honesty between GMs and players solves most problems - because both parties are virtually always well intentioned. So getting into an argument with a GM it anyone else I think is fine, so long as both parties are actually trying to understand each other and resolve differences and hopefully learn something. I think as long as you state your grievances from that perspective, it's fine to disagree with the GM or anyone else.

Good idea to create a consensus on some things here, though, condude.


It's not appropriate to argue with the GM in-thread. That creates an unworkable dynamic between players and GM. I agree about the AAR though.
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby condude1 » 11 Apr 2018, 19:39

Can someone doublecheck my definition of angleshooting? I know what it means, but I want to make sure I defined it properly.
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 11 Apr 2018, 19:46

Strongly dislike any rule that relies on "should be obvious." What's obvious to one person isn't to another--take the ending of Galaxy Quest as proof of that, and why rules need to be explicit instead of assumed.
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby condude1 » 11 Apr 2018, 19:49

nanooktheeskimo wrote:Strongly dislike any rule that relies on "should be obvious." What's obvious to one person isn't to another--take the ending of Galaxy Quest as proof of that, and why rules need to be explicit instead of assumed.


What's a better definition though? I put up my closest guess, but if you have a better definition, I'd love to hear it.

Edit: Is that better? The MU definition doesn't really work here, since this community thrives on breaking rulesets. :roll:
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby kimpossible » 11 Apr 2018, 19:51

condude1 wrote:Can someone doublecheck my definition of angleshooting? I know what it means, but I want to make sure I defined it properly.

I think intentionally using meta information to gain an unfair advantage should also be included here. I did it in IA without really thinking about it and got a warning, but if I pulled that again I'd totally expect to be modkilled for it. Some stuff isn't really avoidable for individual players, like seeing if someone is logged in but not posting, but bringing it up in thread seems like it crosses a line.

It also might be worth saying specifically at the top that these are rules used by most GMs, but that a GM's specific ruleset takes precedence if it contradicts any of them.
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby condude1 » 11 Apr 2018, 19:53

kimbyrle wrote:
condude1 wrote:Can someone doublecheck my definition of angleshooting? I know what it means, but I want to make sure I defined it properly.

I think intentionally using meta information to gain an unfair advantage should also be included here. I did it in IA without really thinking about it and got a warning, but if I pulled that again I'd totally expect to be modkilled for it. Some stuff isn't really avoidable for individual players, like seeing if someone is logged in but not posting, but bringing it up in thread seems like it crosses a line.

It also might be worth saying specifically at the top that these are rules used by most GMs, but that a GM's specific ruleset takes precedence if it contradicts any of them.


People use meta information all the time. X did this in that other game! "Condude's at school, he's actually not here" etc. I don't think it's worth trying to thread the needle of acceptable meta versus unacceptable meta.
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby kimpossible » 11 Apr 2018, 19:58

condude1 wrote:
kimbyrle wrote:
condude1 wrote:Can someone doublecheck my definition of angleshooting? I know what it means, but I want to make sure I defined it properly.

I think intentionally using meta information to gain an unfair advantage should also be included here. I did it in IA without really thinking about it and got a warning, but if I pulled that again I'd totally expect to be modkilled for it. Some stuff isn't really avoidable for individual players, like seeing if someone is logged in but not posting, but bringing it up in thread seems like it crosses a line.

It also might be worth saying specifically at the top that these are rules used by most GMs, but that a GM's specific ruleset takes precedence if it contradicts any of them.


People use meta information all the time. X did this in that other game! "Condude's at school, he's actually not here" etc. I don't think it's worth trying to thread the needle of acceptable meta versus unacceptable meta.

Logged in vs not is probably a weak example, but in IA I questioned EAH on having time to write a post that included his IR when we'd only gotten our PMs a few minutes before the thread opened. A number of people called me out on it in-thread, and when I mentioned it again (figuring that time that the horse was already out of the barn) I got a "Do that again and you're modkilled" warning. If that's something people consider generally unacceptable, I'd like to know that, especially if I'm a new player who would be more likely to refer to this list.
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Re: PlayDip Mafia Etiquette Rules

Postby condude1 » 11 Apr 2018, 20:00

kimbyrle wrote:
condude1 wrote:
kimbyrle wrote:I think intentionally using meta information to gain an unfair advantage should also be included here. I did it in IA without really thinking about it and got a warning, but if I pulled that again I'd totally expect to be modkilled for it. Some stuff isn't really avoidable for individual players, like seeing if someone is logged in but not posting, but bringing it up in thread seems like it crosses a line.

It also might be worth saying specifically at the top that these are rules used by most GMs, but that a GM's specific ruleset takes precedence if it contradicts any of them.


People use meta information all the time. X did this in that other game! "Condude's at school, he's actually not here" etc. I don't think it's worth trying to thread the needle of acceptable meta versus unacceptable meta.

Logged in vs not is probably a weak example, but in IA I questioned EAH on having time to write a post that included his IR when we'd only gotten our PMs a few minutes before the thread opened. A number of people called me out on it in-thread, and when I mentioned it again (figuring that time that the horse was already out of the barn) I got a "Do that again and you're modkilled" warning. If that's something people consider generally unacceptable, I'd like to know that, especially if I'm a new player who would be more likely to refer to this list.


Ah, I see. I'll think on how best to phrase that.
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