Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Game Over - Mafia Victory!

Moderators: Zoomzip, Telleo, bkbkbk, condude1, sjg11

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 08:51

I had already answered the first 2 points. If you want more detail/have an angle you want to push, that's great.

If not, I don't know what else you're looking for and I want to know why you're trying to make it seem like I haven't answered these questions when I actually have.

In response to http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&start=1080#p889257 (not quoting due to multiple triple quotes and a lack of skill/desire to do BBCode late at night; each paragraph I write is in response to one of your blocks of text):

Your scumread got a whole lot stronger very quickly. Wasn't voteworthy until I asked you where your reads were.

Why can't you go find where I state a strong scum explanation for alternatives to a plan that shuts down night kills? Because I have, and it's pretty self-explanatory anyway.

If your day had been a "big fat null" then I still would have been suspicious of you. You're a post count leader, and if you haven't done anything alignment indicative in that many posts then I have to look at why. The best explanation in this hypothetical is that you don't want to do something that indicates your alignment, which you would only be worried about if you were scum........this is reasonably close to what actually happened.

So your read on me wasn't out of the blue. True. But I can't help but notice that it wasn't strong or votable until I asked you to make a read.

That post about the SF townread you asked me to refer to? I can't even make sense of what you're saying or how it's relevant.

WHY THE FUCK can I not sheep points I deem to be worthy of repeating? And WHY THE FUCK are you dodging the point about your interactions with Happymeal?

You could have been bussing. You were saying you couldn't possibly be bussing, no sirree. It's not a town indicative point in my mind where you were saying it was.

Have you been talking to sjg at all? What about Telleo? Incidentally, why have you not even acknowledged sjg's and Crunkus' concerns about playstyle?

The views of multiple players that you would be lynched in a final 3 no matter what, coinciding with my scumread on you.

So when I read that when it was originally posted I thought it was referring to questions I actually hadn't answered. It was actually referring to questions I had answered but to which my answers were unsatisfactory and grounds for a scumread, but where your lack of satisfaction was completely unexplained.

PPE: there are a whole bunch of posts in my PPE. This post was not made with awareness of any posts after :39.
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 08:59

mhsmith0 wrote:Holy shit dude. The point was why are you doing nothing else. Why are you NOT putting effort into sorting dodgy, or crunkus, or sjg, or anything like that.

And you? You have indicted NOTHING like the certainty in my red flip to justify doing nothing of note other than interacting with and talking about me. That's a choice YOU made. YOU chose to spend your day this way. And I am holding you accountable for this.

And for the record, I think you know EXACTLY what the criticism of you is about, just like happymeal knew EXACTLY why I was pushing him. I think you're choosing to deflect away from my point, and I can't see that as a townie process. Perhaps tomorow people will pay attention to what I've said after i flip. Perhaps I'll be ignored and dismissed and blamed for my mislynch, as if town bore no responsibility for the mistake. It's no longer going to be my problem. It should damn well be YOUR problem though.

Ps that's not a misrep much as you may wish it was. That's legitimately scummy behavior you've been up to. And when I flip blue you can't blame it on my not having honestly believed it to be the case.

And as soon as I made that case on you you OMGUS voted me (yes, really. What points do you have on me that are not related to my case on you?) and started making demands on me to go back and answer your questions 2 or 3 different ways hoping I could guess what you're looking for (as that is obviously not apparent to me) which, like it or not, sucks up lots of time that I could be interacting with and reading other people on the board. Like, the past 2 nights, I have spent my time digging up old posts of yours to respond to them instead of reading/talking to anyone else.

If I didn't do that then if you do flip town people will be howling for my mislynch since you claim I'm not interacting fairly with you.

I'm trying. I just can't figure out what you want from me.
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 09:04

mhsmith0 wrote:
Jordan767 wrote:That "deflection" is...not a deflection. I'm not doing "that kind of work" because doing so kind of conflicts with having and pursuing my current read.

Way to misrepresent.


Talking about and questioning other people interferes with your "pursuit" of me (a pursuit you've done very little effectively to advance by the way)... how exactly? How does one interfere with the other? Are you only capable of putting in the minimum 15 minutes and just don't have any time to do more, so doing anything other than one task spreads you out too thin? Something else? Because this explanation doesn't make sense to me at all.

I don't have that much time for long drawn out posts. Most of my time is on my phone, where it's difficult to format and even find multiple quotes.

I have more time than 15 minutes (way to get a rise out of me BTW) but I don't have it for big posts like cases or let's-respond-to-smith's-questions-for-the-third-goddamn-time. And when I do have that time I have to argue with you about the same goddamn things over and over again every evening. If I didn't you'd be pushing my mislynch even harder because then I wouldn't be talking to you as much as I am.
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 09:10

mhsmith0 wrote:

Other behavior -

Open Questions:
1) Jordan, is it correct to interpret this:

1. Why does Crunkus in particular concern you? There are some excellent scum players on this roster, and yet you only care about the one.

2. You make a fair point. But I'm not sold that that's a moment that can't come from scum.


as follows

"I don't know if Smith is scum or town. His behavior can be explained by either alignment, but given that so much of it is alignment non-indicative, as opposed to being fully town indicative, I am therefore inclined to look at the mountain of confusing behavior and say 'If this were a town player, there'd be a lot less confusing stuff. There's too much potential smoke, so I'm guessing there's fire.'"

And if so, please compare that to your previous standard of proof on Happymeal:

Agreed that he's scummy and should die. But ideally I'd like to be sure before deadline that he truly is scum, and his meta really complicates that.



I believe this wasn't answered yet.

It was actually, several pages prior.
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 09:12

mhsmith0 wrote:
Crunkus wrote:
mhsmith0 wrote:Awesome. I've made a shit-ton of points about Jordan. Since you seem to be concerned with what I have to say, waht do you think of those points?


Again, this post is about smith, not Jordan.

Most of smith's posts about Jordan are about smith, not about Jordan.

It's a difference in focus...and its been consistent all game.


No it isn't. It's about Jordan, it's about the points that I raised about Jordan, and what sjg thought about those points.

Seriously crunkus. I am getting lynched, there is NOTHING that suggests that I won't be. Literally nothing.

So if you're town, relax, pat yourself on the back, crack open a beer and STOP POSTING because hey, you have already won since you're so sure I'm scum. You don't actually need to convince people to get on me because, guess what? They're already on me, and ZERO of my voters seem to have any desire to go elsewhere.

If people unvote me, THEN start ranting. Otherwise, if you have nothing productive to say about people other than me, just go away. Please. You're not helping anything, REGARDLESS OF MY ALIGNMENT.

Ps I also dislike you calling me a "cartoon character", for the record.

Oh incidentally this is where you flat out tell Crunkus to stop posting and go away no questions or non-offensive explanation offered.
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 09:15

mhsmith0 wrote:Crunkus:

If you're town and you're right, then all you're doing is spiking the football on a game that's already won.
If you're town and you're wrong, then you are shitting up the thread and preventing anything useful from being discussed.

Just. Stop. Posting. If you are town, this is helpful to NO ONE. Take some personal responsibility for YOUR side of the engagement, and understand that what you are doing is making the game state worse, regardless of anyone's alignment. I completely fail to see why I need to explain this to you.

also here
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 09:22

mhsmith0 wrote:I also don't scumread Jordan based on OMGUS, or badly dressed up OMGUS. I have specific issues with the case he has made against me, and have discussed them, and have discussed those issues.

I also take some minor issue with his early mechanics talk - some of it for presenting plans that gave scum potentially a LOT of wiggle room
viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&p=887977#p887977 in particular

and also some early mildly pingy stuff
viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&p=887997#p887997 (hedgy)
viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&p=888011#p888011 (always pings me when people bitch about being lynchbait WAY before it's even potentially relevant)

and just a general sense that he was simply someone who was THERE more than someone who was being truly productive. I don't know that I can put it into better words than that, but that's more or less my headspace.

1. When and where did you discuss those issues? I don't remember it.

2. The mechanics talk: I never said those plans were great. I wanted to see the group's evaluation of them and I eventually dropped them due to their inferiority.

3. The "mildly pingy" stuff: "hedgy" is something I sometimes do as town. Especially when I'm thinking fast and want more time to think about something before going on record as for sure seeing it as one thing or the other. "Bitching about being lynchbait" is not what I was doing. It was a fucking JOKE. Should I have used a different emoji?

mhsmith0 wrote:
Jordan767 wrote:Why do you always mislynch me? :(


Because it's fun! :D

You know who it's even MORE fun to lynch though? ;)

In your response to me you seem to know it's a joke. Why are you now presenting it as something else?

I can't really answer the "just there" part of it.
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 09:23

EBWOP looks like you didn't actually discuss these issues after all. You were just talking about the issues with my case. Why have you not discussed these early issues?
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby Jordan767 » 14 Jan 2017, 09:25

Telleo wrote:
mhsmith0 wrote:
Jordan767 wrote:Why should he have to die before the endgame?


1) maybe because I think he's completely full of shit and don't want to accept a possible loss to scum!crunkus here? That's certainly what I've been representing. Do you think that's an unreasonable perspective for a townie derp-tunneled by him to have?


And this is something you're worried enough about to call Crunkus on, even though you townread him? And no one else?

See? Telleo made the same interpretation I did. One of us, max, could be scum.
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread

Postby mhsmith0 » 14 Jan 2017, 09:28

Re
viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&start=1330#p889545

I'm being lynched, so it literally doesn't matter what I have to say in defense of myself.

Your "scum motivation" point about my plan was always bad. I had a plan you did not like. That is not scummy unless there was clear evidence that said plan was much worse for town (it wasn't) or that I was trying to strongarm it through (obviously false) or that I was just trying to hide out in mechanics discussion (also fairly obviously false).

If I was null that I was null. You literally just argued that if I was null then I am scummy. MAYBE this is a terribly worded argument for my having actively lurked (which I didn't do, and which certainly isn't null). You want a null day? Look at keirador, who made some decent points here and there but hasn't even been slightly close to obvtown. There's a day that's nice and null. Or look at crunkus, who's chosen to spend the day (just as you have) doing basically nothing but talking about me and ignoring literally anything else he could talk about. Except it SEEMS like he actually believes what he's saying. Again, null. Those are the arts of thins I'm talking about (inb4 someone bitches about me being insufficently clear again)

The point about sheeping was that all of your own arguments were pretty transparently bad. So the only substantive stuff was sheeped. That's scum-indicative.

The idea that I shouldn't be in the final three is a silly point by whoever made it first, and a sketchy thing to sheep.

viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&start=1330#p889545
I agree you're trying, I just think you're trying for scum wincon. If Im wrong, well, I'm not any more wrong than most of the board (yourself included) has been about me.
I'm also not sure what points I could be among that are NOT relevant to your case on me since that's where you've chosen to spend your time.
I will say that you're not alone in claiming to be unable to understand what I'm saying. I believe it's insincere on your part, but doubtless those who think I've been unclear to them too can weigh in on tnat one.
I also don't really want to be a big jerk about it... but you really haven't been asked very many questions by me. If it took you mine than fifteen minutes to find them you're doing it very wrong - maybe you should try the ISO feature from page one that i provided to all?

posting.php?mode=reply&f=306&t=54506#pr889547
Your answers have been consistently unsatisfactory. I've been clear and explicit as to where I've found them so. If it's that hard to understand what I'm saying and why I'm unsatisfied, I honestly don't kniw what is to say. Perhaps you'll find sympathy in my critics.

posting.php?mode=reply&f=306&t=54506#pr889549
Otherwise, if you have nothing productive to say about people other than me, just go away. Please. You're not helping anything, REGARDLESS OF MY ALIGNMENT.


Explanation literally right there. Is it offensive? Maybe. Is it INNACURATE? Am I factually incorrect when I say that it seemed that he had nothing productive to say? And that his choice to keep wallposting despite this was in fact shitting up the thread? Ignore whether it was nice (crunkus is in partuclar a proponent of "it's just a game" and "grow a thick skin" so I'm unwilling to feel bad about saying something that was both mean [but NOT a personal attack] and accurate). Was it TRUE? Because if it was? Then by crunkus standards it should damn well be fine to say.

viewtopic.php?p=889549#p889550
Also reiterating the same goddamn point. He was choosing to shit up the thread and stifle what had the potential to be productive discussion. That was a choice he made and I was telling him to stop. I had every right to do so.

viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&start=1330#p889551
Did I discuss it before? Beats me. Does that invalidate it as a point of suspicion?
Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe you wanted to see if you could get a bad plan through. Note "minor issue" which I think is fair for that situation.
I didn't know if you were joking, but I still think it's mildly scum-indiciative even if you were.
These were all pretty minor points, though; mainly I was doing it for the record (since, once again, I'm gonna die soon).
Proud holder of the Superior Tophat of Solving, an item entrusted with the forum's most prominent smartass
User avatar
mhsmith0
 
Posts: 3616
Joined: 11 Dec 2015, 06:55
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1269)
All-game rating: (1439)
Timezone: GMT-7

PreviousNext

Return to Game Threads

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests