Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Game Over - Mafia Victory!

[Jordan767]

Reposting this. It's the only plan proposed thus far so I think town should go for it. It's better than nothing at least. SF and I are the only wagons. If SF dies I pull Crunkus. If I die she should push Telleo.

Info I have as of right now:

Jordan (rated 2): currently 1 pull
sjg (rated 5): currently 3 pull
dodgy (rated 3): currently 1 push
SF (rated 2): can't find a claim, should currently be 0
Telleo (rated 4): currently 1 pull
Keir (rated 2): currently 2 push
Justy (rated 5): currently 3 pull
Crunkus (rated 1): can't find a claim, should currently be 1 push

Illegal visit pairs:
sjg/justy
dodgy/Telleo
Jordan/Keir
Crunkus/SF

Suggested night action plan, with predicted results:
sjg and dodgy pull each other (sjg ends with 1 pull and dodgy with 1 pull as well)
Justy and Telleo pull each other (Justy ends with 2 pull and Telleo with 2 pull as well)
Keir and Crunkus push each other (Keir ends with 1 push and Crunkus with 2 push)
Jordan and SF pull each other (Jordan ends with 1 pull and SF ends even)

You will note that this assumes we lynch nobody. That's obviously not a very valid assumption. I think as a likely lynch develops we tinker with the plan a little to ensure that people stay reasonably close to 0 with that person dead. I don't have the mental agility to go through all those permutations right now.

I think something that could work for this is one of SF or me is lynched, the other pulls Crunkus which puts him at even and either SF at 2 push or me at 1 push, and leaves the rest of the roster the way I predicted above. If someone else is lynched, the person who was to target that person targets SF instead with the action listed for them above, as that keeps anyone from dying, only screws up her number, and is simple. Then we damage control her number the next night. If you have a better suggestion for this, let me know.

If you get lynched, SF can't visit Crunkus, right? So SF should probably push Sjg or dodgy if that happens.

Otherwise, I'm up for this plan.

Good point. If she pulled you or Telleo though then either you or Telleo ends up even, which I think is better than putting sjg in one direction instead of the other.

Crunkus--I'm aware it's potentially flawed depending who gets lynched. But we need something.

[Jordan767]

So it looks like I'm getting lynched.

Damn.

If I die IMO you should focus most on Keir. SF maybe. Telleo and justy seem town to me at this point.

[Jordan767]

A *quick* skim of sjg's iso doesn't ping me much. I'd say his slot is not a high priority. But do take a look.

[shadowface]

Jordan, I didn't see your response yesterday because it was right after I went to bed, and it seems I picked up a few posts down. Sorry.
I'll try to speed read and speed respond to it now.

[condude1]

The day has ended, please stop posting.

Results will be up soon.

[dodgy56]

The point is there was no evidence of you scumhunting outside of HM on the basis that HM was scum either. It was like you werent worried about trying to find a second scum at all. You kept saying you were but your actions werent really backing that up.

Dodgy, you haven't read the thread, have you? Not really, right? Because I actually did make a case on Jordan that day, so you're just flat out wrong here.

Also, you did nothing on Day 1 or 2. Literally nothing. You are scum by your own standards.

Personally, I don't expect anyone to town read me on more of a gut read like mhsmith did, and I don't want to argue in favor of that. But over the last few games I've had enough people gut read me as scum and drag me to the gallows, based on tone (correctly, on that note) that I don't think it's unreasonable or offensive that someone could town read me for once based on the same factors.

Can anyone attest to this being an accurate representation of SF1's scum play? specifically the bolded.

Did someone attest to this?

They're far more considered and in places leave room to wriggle out of that read than zoom's defences of smith which were very adamant. However if you read how confident he appears in his town read of smith, it doesnt match the level of evidence he is providing. I could see scum SF!1 trying to gain town cred for not being on town smith's lynch.

Leaving wiggle room for what?
Also, they just didn't. Literally no one else thinks I was being noncommital about townreading smith yesterday - I've been accused of townreading him excessively. I think the town can recognize that this is not a fair criticism of my play.

Ok. Condude confirms sub coming in at EOD. I commit my sub to pushing SJG if there's a night phase. Hopefully they see that and honor it.

Why are you leaving ZZ? Because your case on sjg didn't get much traction?

that seems like a pretty personal sorta jab at zoom. tbh its just not cool even if you are scum.

A personal jab??? Was it not clear that I wanted to know ZZ's reasons for leaving because I was considering if it could be scum indicative and this would have helped my determine that? Also, I quite enjoy playing with Zoomzip, and was disappointed that he was leaving. He didn't take it as a personal jab, because it wasn't.
Also, what the hell does that have to do with my alignment?

Then we get into today stuff about hostility from Telleo. I get that the commentary from Telleo has been predominantly negative. but negative and hostile arent the same thing. Being negative and saying it doesnt make sense or that you havent explained something coherently is very different to being hostile and out to get you. I dont think Telleo or Crunkus have been unreasonable in their interrogation of you. I also get that sometimes their way of scumhunting can push buttons and come off as abrasive, but thats their style as either allignment.

I couldn't agree more. I guarantee you will NEVER find me saying it's scum indicative. Quite the opposite, actually.

The largest issue is that you arent really actually answering the questions they are asking you, or more specifically that you are answering some of the questions but are consistently avoiding others. this is kinda why i want input from others about your assessment of your scum play that i quoted earlier in this post.

Did you not see the monster post I made in which I answered every single question? It's pretty long, I don't see how you could have missed that.

also comments like the below just arent helpful- its anti-town at best

You owe me a few more answers than just this. I spent a lot of time answering your posts over the night. I'd prefer to not have all those questions brushed off under the umbrella of "Telleo wasn't very nice."

So I'll ask you one more time. SF, what did you do during D1 and particularly during D2 that you would characterize as scumhunting? Quotes or links would be appreciated.

Hey Telleo, I put three hours tonight just into answering your concerns and discussing my case on Jordan with Crunkus. I've been really focussing on my case on Jordan today, which is something I wanted to do yesterday but did not get around to doing, so that is my priority. I do not want to wait until later to push this case I feel strongly about, even though I'm quite busy with my university term.

What you could do to help me out is stop nagging me for a while so I actually have a chance to scumhunt. As for adding more onto the 800 response I just gave you outlining why I'm annoyed with you... no, that's not a reasonable request. That is my thought process, and there is nothing more to add.

Thanks.
Good Night.

I agree that was not an inherently productive discussion. But sometimes that's needed in order to come to an understanding, or to facilitate engagement. I fail to see how you can see this single post, in which I focused on explaining myself, as inherently scummy.

overall i have several issues with SF1 which are yet to be adequately addressed.
Shadowfriend1

Post on Jordan coming up

Have they been adequately addressed in the post above?[/quote]

Nope and nope.

The first one is somewhat true I guess. You made a post about Jordan. Then backed it up with post about hm-Jordan not making sense as a team.

The second isn't really accurate either. I wasn't active. That's true. But it's not the actual lack of scumhunting I found to be inherently scummy, it was the idea that you we're active and saying you were scumhunting but weren't actually doing it.

You dont think asking if someone is subbing out because their case was bad is personal?? Like its attacking their credibility and integrity regardless of their allignment.

You have in no way answered every question directed at you. That is a blatant lie. You have avoided a number of questions directed at you from telleo and crunkus.

[condude1]

People are beginning to tire of the bloodshed, and, while some of the more bloodthirsty among you were initially excited, it's wearing on everyone's nerves. In the same manner as the others, after a brief fight, Jordan767 is pushed off the edge. However, Jordan manages to hang onto the edge of the arena, slippery as it may be. Someone ignores his pleas and kicks him off the edge. Down Jordan falls, until, at about the same time he reaches the ground, the arena flashes blue, indicating that Jordan was a member of Team 1.



Jordan767 (4): Crunkus, Keirador, shadowfriend1, sjg11
shadowfriend1 (3): dodgy56, Jordan767, Telleo
SJG11 (1): justy

Jordan767 was a member of Team 1

Night 3 has begun, it will end at 9:30 PM PST, Saturday, January 21, or when I receive all push and pull orders.

[condude1]

Another fight breaks out in the arena, but it seems that the remaining players are weaklings, and once again, no one is pushed (or pulled!) off the edge of the arena.

No one has died at night.

Day 4 has begun, it will end January 24th, at 1:00 PM PST. A countdown clock will be up shortly.

You may begin posting.

[sjg11]

Alright guys, my eyesight is back but it's late here. I will post something in more detail tomorrow.

Let's finish this today.

[shadowface]

Hi everyone. It seems our plan has continued to prevent night kills
Here's where I'm at right now:

Firstly, I pushed Telleo last night (based on what Jordan said at EOD). Now I'm at 2 pull which makes sense, because no one was supposed to target me IIRC.

Secondly, I feel kind of bad about killing Jordan yesterday. I wish I had had time to engage with his response to my case, as well as others'. I mean, the fact that he's town means I was clearly reading him wrong. Probably tunneling. Hmm. I need to look wider today I think.

Thirdly, and on that note, I have no idea who the mafia is. Congratz to them, I guess.

Now, to business:

• sjg: I'm glad you can see again Finally an opportunity to use the glasses smiley!! If you've caught up in the thread, could you tell us who you probably would have chosen to lynch before EOD if you had read the thread at that point?
  
  
• justy: To what extent was this a whip vote? viewtopic.php?f=306&t=54506&start=1630
  Could you elaborate upon 'oddities in his handling of smith meta'?
  
  
• Telleo: If you've read through them, what do you think of my responses to your questions? Also, who do you think looks the worst today from Jordan's town flip?
  
  
• dodgy: You finally started playing yesterday by engaging in my case. What about me in particular caught your eye?
  
  
• Crunkus:

  Jordan do I have something to look forward to from you?
  Or is this sort of what it's going to be like from here on out?

  
  My impression yesterday was that you voted for Jordan because you didn't think you'd be able to get enough engagement out of him to distinguish his alignment. Did this attitude come from honest, building frustration with him, or was it influenced by the fact that you didn't have a decent candidate for scum towards the end of the day?
  Also, what do you currently think of Keirdador? Do you think he's scum, or just town not living up to your expectations of him?
  
  
• Keirador:

  Crunk, why no interest in sjg? He's the worst lurker in the game right now. He's not giving me enough to give me my warm fuzzy holistic gut townread of sjg.

  
  Do you think it's very likely that sjg was intentionally lurking yesterday as scum? Is that something you could see scum-sjg doing so blatantly in that situation?