Mafia CLV: Fable 8 Game Thread

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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby condude1 » 23 Nov 2016, 03:27

Happymeal wrote:
condude1 wrote:Harb: When I arrived at the site I went through about the last 4 pages of games and read/skimmed them all. That's very different from playing in those games. When I play a game I generally recall it a lot better than if I just read it cursorily, which is reasonable. For example, I can't tell you a thing about Reaper, Joker, Darling,


I'm currently working on sweeping through the entire thread and have more for you soon, but if this is true, then how do you not recognize the similarities between Harb now and in the last match we just played?

Harb was town in that match yet he did not make reference to my radical play at all in regards to it and the disparity of my prior scum play. If you can generally recall things, how did you not recognize that? Harb made no reference to the difference in my play in BMS yet you criticize him in this match for something a town Harb did. How does the play differentiate itself in this scenario?

Also:

Condude1

I'll be back with more.


Your play hasn't been very different from last game... at all. That bothered me about my vote on you for a while. Harb also didn't push a case on you in BMS 2. These are extremely different scenarios. To top it off, Harb is a good enough player that his town and scum games look quite similar.

How am I criticizing him for something townHarb did? I noted that he didn't bring up a very relevant meta difference between this game and P4B.
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby Happymeal » 23 Nov 2016, 03:30

condude1 wrote:
Your play hasn't been very different from last game... at all. That bothered me about my vote on you for a while. Harb also didn't push a case on you in BMS 2. These are extremely different scenarios. To top it off, Harb is a good enough player that his town and scum games look quite similar.

How am I criticizing him for something townHarb did? I noted that he didn't bring up a very relevant meta difference between this game and P4B.


I forgot that you were GM of BMS and not a player. However, the point is that Town harb did not bring up the meta difference inside the BMS game, but he also did not bring it up here. How does that play into your perspective?
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby Harb » 23 Nov 2016, 03:35

condude1 wrote:Harb: When I arrived at the site I went through about the last 4 pages of games and read/skimmed them all. That's very different from playing in those games. When I play a game I generally recall it a lot better than if I just read it cursorily, which is reasonable. For example, I can't tell you a thing about Reaper, Joker, Darling, except that Crunkus ran it, but could recall WIFOMafia MUCH better, even though it's further away. Generally I have an idea of whether I've played with someone previously, and whether their meta was radically different as one alignment. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

Anyways, so you claim I'm performing. How do you expect me to respond? That's one of the hand-wavey accusations, like accusing someone of active lurking.

As for the GM question thing, I'll talk about it tomorrow.

Other than that, that's just a revenge/OMGUS vote (you literally claim that's the reason below). It comes with the territory of voting someone, I guess.

Harb wrote:Mostly, I know I'm town and I know condude's reasons are whack and I haven't liked husband play today.


So I'm just lying about not remembering a game three years ago? I hadn't responded to Keir's argument yet when you voted, but you don't react to my new information at all.

Also, you said you READ it, not skimmed. If you'd said skimmed I would have reacted differently. Do you see how my reaction to saying that you don't remember something but I should is fair though? Even if there's a difference between play and.not play, if you were invested enough to read the whole thing you presumably took some opinions away from it that you now don't remember. I'm in a similar boat.

How about the part you skipped over about the work I've been doing to trying and figure out my HM read accurately?

What are you supposed to respond? How about responding to the facts that I used to support the performance accusation? I gave specific reasons I thought it was performance. You're more focused on finding things to attack than trying to asssess whether those things are true. The things you're pointing out as attacks on others don't reflect what's actually going on. The performance claim is about showing why those things are a problem.

And you're right, I admit there's probably some OMGUS to the timing of my vote. But that's clearly not the entirety of it. You're minimizing.
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby Happymeal » 23 Nov 2016, 03:40

Harb wrote:Stuff


Harb, I'd like to know your thoughts about how Condude is targeting you for something you did as town in a game we just played. I'm referring directly to your lack of meta read of my actions (differentiating scum vs. town HM) in BMS while it being tantamount to how you have acted here. How does this play into your thought process?
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby Harb » 23 Nov 2016, 03:44

Happymeal wrote:
Harb wrote:Stuff


Harb, I'd like to know your thoughts about how Condude is targeting you for something you did as town in a game we just played. I'm referring directly to your lack of meta read of my actions (differentiating scum vs. town HM) in BMS while it being tantamount to how you have acted here. How does this play into your thought process?


I don't think condude gets what you're saying yet. Kinda hard to make a judgement there

Condude, HM is saying that if I had meta knowledge about HM, I would have pointed it last game. He's pointing out that his gameplay is similar here (you agree), and that if town Harb recognized that difference from HM's scum play he would have pointed it out in that game. Is that how you're reading him?
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby Happymeal » 23 Nov 2016, 03:48

Harb wrote: Is that how you're reading him?


You hit the nail on the head with a sledgehammer. Nice work. Now, what do you think about it? What do you think about the way this is being executed by condude?
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby theGreatPlaya » 23 Nov 2016, 04:05

Hello. Been busy. :( What are the (summarized) arguments against condude?
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby condude1 » 23 Nov 2016, 04:06

Harb wrote:
Happymeal wrote:
Harb wrote:Stuff


Harb, I'd like to know your thoughts about how Condude is targeting you for something you did as town in a game we just played. I'm referring directly to your lack of meta read of my actions (differentiating scum vs. town HM) in BMS while it being tantamount to how you have acted here. How does this play into your thought process?


I don't think condude gets what you're saying yet. Kinda hard to make a judgement there

Condude, HM is saying that if I had meta knowledge about HM, I would have pointed it last game. He's pointing out that his gameplay is similar here (you agree), and that if town Harb recognized that difference from HM's scum play he would have pointed it out in that game. Is that how you're reading him?


Ah, gotcha. You weren't scumreading him in particular last game though, so there wasn't really a reason to bring it up. This game, you're scumreading him despite it.

I find your explanation reasonable though, remember, that comment came right after Keirador could recall that game reasonably well. It's not outrageous for me to assume that you could too. Of course, if you say you can't, I won't call BS, since that seems like a weird thing to lie about.
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby condude1 » 23 Nov 2016, 04:08

theGreatPlaya wrote:Hello. Been busy. :( What are the (summarized) arguments against condude?


Harb's voting me because I voted him, Happymeal's voting me because I thought Harb would recall a game that Keirador did, and when I skimmed/read it a few years ago, I should have remembered it.

That's my completely and totally unfair and biased version of events.
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Re: Fable 8 Game Thread

Postby Happymeal » 23 Nov 2016, 04:23

condude1 wrote:
Ah, gotcha. You weren't scumreading him in particular last game though, so there wasn't really a reason to bring it up. This game, you're scumreading him despite it.

I find your explanation reasonable though, remember, that comment came right after Keirador could recall that game reasonably well. It's not outrageous for me to assume that you could too. Of course, if you say you can't, I won't call BS, since that seems like a weird thing to lie about.


- I want to know something here. I'm not sure if this was a scum slip or not, but you say here specifically:

Ah, gotcha. You weren't scumreading him in particular last game though, so there wasn't really a reason to bring it up


There was no reason to bring it up last match. However, you were GM, were you not? You could not have brought up this information, you weren't a player. Why did you say that here? To me, this looks like a scum accidentally forgetting something while trying to weasel his way out of a bad scenario. I mean, you'd think a guy who claims "When I play a game I generally recall it a lot better than if I just read it cursorily, which is reasonable".

Also, I'd like to know what the disparity between whether we scum reads me or not matters on the issue. He never outwardly stated that he voted for me as a byproduct of the way or play or how I do things yet he's scum because there's disparity between town and mafia HM that matter this much after 3 years?
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