Mafia CLIV: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia (Town Win)

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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby Harb » 03 Nov 2016, 23:26

Zip, i think behavior as lynch leader EOD depends more on player than alignment.

Sjg - re:My SF position. I agree that it's not super persuasive. I've been talking about it recently more to explain my concerns than anything else. I pushed it to get feedback, but I'm accepting of the general feedback. What I DON'T accept is that it wasn't worth bringing up and discussing

Also not sure I'd characterize Zip as shifting blame on DJ. Sjg, if DJ is scum joe do you read ZZ?
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby Harb » 03 Nov 2016, 23:27

Jordan, did you backresd players other than me? You make a point that I'm hard to read, but I'd argue I'm. It alone on that list
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby condude1 » 03 Nov 2016, 23:28

Lynch results: Final

Zoomzip (1): Don Juan of Austria
Don Juan of Austria (8): Happymeal, Jordan767, justy, shadowfriend1, UpsideDownChuck, Zoomzip, Harb, Sjg11

Reminder, vote weighting due to sizes is secret. This tally is not necessarily representative of the true vote count.

The day was rife with argument, with a big debate on whether the town should adhere to the old system of "The smaller the person, the bigger the influence". In time, it was decided that size should be irrelevant, and instead the entire town should converge upon some poor victim, forcing them under Condude's giant feet. That victim was Don Juan of Austria. Poor don Juan stopped fighting when his doom seemed inevitable, and accepted his fate. Condude came lumbering by, as he did every day, oblivious to the poor person under his foot. Searching through the mangled remains of Don Juan of Austria, you find a picture of his mother, one of the original fighters against the oppression of dissidents. Unless he diverged greatly from his family history, Don Juan of Austria was probably innocent. Dismayed, you retire for a few hours, planning out who to stomp during what will surely be an agonizingly long night.

Don Juan of Austria was a Loyal Subject. Night 1 will end at 2:30 PM PDT, Saturday, November 5th 2016. Please send me your stomp orders ASAP.
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby condude1 » 04 Nov 2016, 19:37

The night ends, and with it, worries of more violence over the night. As people trickle in to the agreed meeting point, nervous eyes count heads. Finally, a few minutes late, the eighth person strolls into your gathering, and a collective sigh of relief goes up around the town. Everyone survived the night!

No one was squashed last night.

Day 2 has begun, it will end on Monday, November 7th at 1:00 PM PST. Please note that the time change will have occurred, and this is the equivalent of 12:00 PM PDT. Apologies for any confusion this causes.
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby Happymeal » 04 Nov 2016, 19:41

Man, I was only about halfway done with my case against SF for today and the day already started. Do you guys mind waiting about 30 minutes to an hour for me to wrap it up so i can be the first post of today?
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby Happymeal » 04 Nov 2016, 19:47

shadowfriend1 wrote:If you don't follow the plan that the town decides to go with, I'll visit you tonight and squish you.


Here's where my perplexity to SF starts: His over-committal to the plan.

He vehemently holds (throughout the day) that he wants to stomp me despite my re - reveal as large (though that's not the biggest issue). The reason I find this most odd is because of his original stance in regards to the plan itself.

shadowfriend1 wrote:Sure. Potential flaw might be if a lynch falls on Monday for me. On monday I am booked entirely solid with classes and monster commutes and, depending on how many buses I have to wait for, might not be able to check in, almost certainly not with a short (ie. 3hr) deadline. It would make me very sad to get killed for this.
EDIT: I wrote this before knowing my size or faction while reading the thread, and now that I know I'm large, if I don't make a deadline I don't mind if everyone tries to stomp me.
On that note, the stomping plan doesn't work if the target is large, or solve the problem of what we're supposed to do with the small and medium townies.
@Zoomzip: If a large player doesn't consolidate votes, we can't stomp him to death at night. Would you want to lynch him the next day then? What would you do if he claims to have been busy - still lynch him for it? I'm not against your plan (in fact it sounds quite fun), but I'd like to know how this would work, with almost everyone being large so far.


Do you see his response? This is not the response of a man who wants to adhere to the plan in such a way that he did originally. Does this look like a post from a guy who would aggressively pursue the tenets of such a plan? First off, he responds with solely "sure". It's not as if he's like sjg whose perspective changed entirely as a byproduct of such a plan reveal which I could comprehend someone like that pursuing its conventions in such a way. However, SF not only scream neutral "ok, I'll do this", but he also has some issues and questions about the plan. He hasn't even completely addressed his issues with such an idea, but his first response to a dissenter is basically to threaten to kill him.

Here's what I want to know SF: Why? Why did you pursue this so aggressively when you already had concerns about things as well as not coming straight away with such a pious attitude? What changed your attitude so much in a matter of posts?

[*]@Don Juan - Describe the benefits of a partial town reveal vs a full town reveal please. Then reveal. [/list]


Now, here is a second piece of evidence I find odd about SF. He questions Don Juan about the benefits of a partial town reveal and is extremely willing to vote for him in a lynch despite only wanting him to answer the question. However:

shadowfriend1 wrote:
Happymeal wrote: I think it only be fair I not only question him, but pressure him with my vote. it makes no sense to aggressively pursue someone without a tool to do it with. If you think none of this is critical, you've missed everything I've stated, but that's irrelevant.

Could you please restate this? I do not understand your point here.


He responds to my statement with a question and that he doesn't understand. However, he had just done the same thing prior to me and my explanation about my vote. Why in the world would he apply a tactic and not comprehend when that tactic is explained. This to me can happen as a byproduct of two things.

The first of these is that he just didn't understand my phrasing. As I reread this, it doesn't seem like it'd be difficult to comprehend. However, he's made plenty of claims that he is "as dumb as a cucumber" or whatever. Basically, he says he is stupid. I don't buy that. Do you know why? I went through his other games recently and read things about him and his interactions with other people. I especially read Plague mafia (not the whole thing, just enough to get perspective) and the last big, medium, small mafia. First and foremost, generally speaking, people did not have a low opinion of him. They generally stated that he was an intelligent guy. The second factor is that as I was reading through his posts when he played, he never seemed to easily misunderstand things such as this even during the more difficult passages. I do not believe for a second he misunderstood this as a byproduct of intellect.

The second is that he did not recognize this because he is not actually voting to figure out who the scum is. He voted Don early into the game because he needed something to do besides answering questions and make himself look busy. Now comes along Happymeal who does the same thing and he doesn't recognize the tactic nor the purpose? He's not paying attention to the game he's playing, which is something I think is a common attribute of mafia. They do not care about the details of the game and therefore do not pay attention to them. Something that SF has demonstrated greatly here.

Now, the questions I will give to you are these. Why did you not recognize that I used a tactic that you had used directly after I did and why did you not comprehend the point originally?


[*]@Don Juan - Describe the benefits of a partial town reveal vs a full town reveal please. Then reveal. [/list]


On top of this, UDC had not revealed as of this point in time while not receiving any criticism or questions from SF (he also did not think full reveals were good). Considering SF liked the plan introduced by ZZ so much, one would assume, he'd be all over UDC for this. Why? Because UDC had not agreed with the idea of full reveals despite ZZ's plan working significantly better with full reveals. Why is it that you pursue both Don Juan and me for these factors, but not UDC?

On top of that, he had no intentions of pursuing this. I looked throughout the game on Don's posts and he never once came back to him. Not a single time did Don actually respond to SF's concern which made him actually vote for him as a lynch candidate yet SF never once pursued this area afterward. In fact, he eventually went on to state that Don was a "stupid townie". This, to me, looks like a mafia attempting to get town cred, especially with the disparity in attitude between his original stance on Don (huge lynch candidate) vs. his end stance (bad townie). Why did your attitude change so much?

color=#FF0000]Shadowfriend1[/color]
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby Happymeal » 04 Nov 2016, 19:48

shadowfriend1[

I'm not completely done with this tbh. I just wanted to get this information out early because I might not be available later.
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby Happymeal » 04 Nov 2016, 19:51

I'm also gonna put this out, considering no one died last night, it seems the scum are adhering to our stomping circle. This, to me, seems like the most logical thing for them, but I guess one couldn't extrapolate much information from it to begin with.

I stomped ZZ last night

I had not seen that we changed the stomping circle until I reread the end of day after already sending in my night order. I wanted to make this clear just in case people thought everyone adhered to the final stomping circle presented by ZZ yesterday.
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby Zoomzip » 04 Nov 2016, 19:57

We're live again? And no kills at night?

I targeted Happy for a Stomp last night. Either Happy is Town Large, Scum Large, or Scum Non Large who just burned a hide.

I expected at least one kill.

Naive analysis: All large are town, so hunt in the non-large group. This feels wrong, but I can't articulate why. Like -- Mafia are deciding to mislynch their way to victory already? We're at 6-2 -- That's a long way to go. Alternatively, Mafia want NKs to sweep in at the last minute. (I know, catechism is don't play the night game -- but this is not a typical game).

Other possibility -- Is that Lynch All Liars is a really bad idea until people get into thread.

I am still trying to figure this out.

Happy, who did you stomp last night?
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Re: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia Day 1

Postby Happymeal » 04 Nov 2016, 19:58

Zoomzip wrote:
Happy, who did you stomp last night?


Get wrecked scrub. Beat you to the punch. I have psychic powers so I know exactly what people will say in the future.
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