Geophysical Diplomacy - introductory thread

7-player variant played on the standard map with two modifications. Similar to Seismic but with some differences. Created by Jeremy Maiden. GM: Pedros.

Re: Geophysical Diplomacy - complete; reserves wanted

Postby chrisman39 » 07 Feb 2011, 04:04

thapauly wrote:I'd rather ask questions and look stupid than get it wrong and be stupid. :lol:

I quite agree.

thapauly wrote:Does an unstabilized space become neutral, or is ownership retained? (Example, England moves through the Irish Sea to the MAO. Later, the unoccupied Irish Sea has a Marine Platform Uplift. Will it be considered English territory?)

Okay, I just looked back to the rules, and I would've sworn that I saw five characteristics that showed what happened in this example, but I can't find them now. If the rules I was reading are right, then yes, it would be. But don't depend on me for that one.\

thapauly wrote:
4. Geophysical changes are adjudicated before movement. Any units remaining in illegal positions are destroyed.


So if an Army starts a season in a territory that is turned into a mountain, it is destroyed even if it is give a move order that would have been resolved successfully? And if a unit is ordered to move into an area that is turned into a mountain, it just bounces?

Yes, I think so.

thapauly wrote:
6. If an unstabilized space is subjected to two different geophysical attacks, the result is the combined effect.


I assume this would include two Erosions or a Marine Platform Uplift & Land Heave, turning a mountain space in a sea space or vice versa.

two different geophysical attacks

thapauly wrote:
7. However, on any Spring move a player may elect to create a new s.c. in any space instead of a geophysical attack, whether he/she controls that space or not.


So if England decided to create a s.c. in Yorkshire, would that count as a controlled s.c. in the Winter even if they never moved a unit there?

As long as it remains English territory. Obviously if it was Russian, it'd be a Russian SC.
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Almost ready to go!

Postby Pedros » 07 Feb 2011, 11:09

Assuming that those who've joined in the rules debate but haven't actually said 'confirm' were confirming, we're ready to go.

But a couple of rules queries have been raised overnight, so I'll allow ten hours for objections to final clarifications on the rules, and I'll post the draw for countries this evening GMT.
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Last minute rules questions

Postby Pedros » 07 Feb 2011, 11:40

As I said in my last post, I'm allowing a few hours for objections to these last clarifications.

1. Frozen SCs - The voting wasn't clear! The confirmation e-mails came down 3-2 in favour of SCs being destroyed (2 non-voters including laserr who was pushing for sea freezes only), but 3 people seemed to question their original views afterwareds, which could have swung it 3-2 the other way! Specifically I have chrisman and SkeyeRage voting to destroy but later wondering; and vaderi voting keep the SC but later doubting. If any of them want to change their minds they have until the countries draw is posted in nine hours' time to say so (if it's a tie it stays with my current ruling that they're retained but neutral).

2.
What happens if there is a fleet in coastal province A, and the sea that makes it a coast becomes land. What happens? For example, say it happens in Sevastapol, and the Black Sea becomes land. Does the fleet go to the Aegean? What if two fleets on coastal provinces are around the Black sea? Where do they go?

The rule is clear:
Any units remaining in illegal positions are destroyed.

3.
So if England decided to create a s.c. in Yorkshire, would that count as a controlled s.c. in the Winter even if they never moved a unit there?
The rule doesn't directly answer this, but I think the rule you quote does say Yes to that:
a player may elect to create a new s.c. in any space instead of a geophysical attack, whether he/she controls that space or not.
So, Yes!

4.
6. If an unstabilized space is subjected to two different geophysical attacks, the result is the combined effect.

I assume this would include two Erosions or a Marine Platform Uplift & Land Heave, turning a mountain space in a sea space or vice versa.
I also think this applies to the two different attacks - so sea turns to mountain, but not to two identical ones (my addition to the rules says they are the same as a supported attack)

5.
So if an Army starts a season in a territory that is turned into a mountain, it is destroyed even if it is give a move order that would have been resolved successfully? And if a unit is ordered to move into an area that is turned into a mountain, it just bounces?

That's right!

6.
Does an unstabilized space become neutral, or is ownership retained?

I think the answer is, it varies (your example about Irish Sea isn't valid, because sea areas are never owned in the way that land provinces are.) Most changes (eg heave, erosion) mean that the space isn't passable/is water either before or after, so the question doesn't arise. Ice advance and retreat create neutrality unless there's a piece there. Earthquakes affect the bhoundary not the space so the question's irrelevant.
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Re: Geophysical Diplomacy - complete; reserves wanted

Postby thapauly » 07 Feb 2011, 13:09

Ok, I think I'm done asking stupid questions!
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Re: Geophysical Diplomacy - complete; reserves wanted

Postby Pedros » 07 Feb 2011, 16:19

I've just received the following suggestion (which is a new one) from laserr by PM. I don't want to go on prolonging this, so unless it gets a seconder by 1900 GMT we'll go on with the winning vote just as before.

laserr wrote:(A frozen SC...) Stays controlled by the same player and when somebody stays there through winter, the SC is his, just as it is in the classic game...although a "frozen SC" can be interesting mechanism (SC stays ONLY to the player who was controling it, nobody can take it until the land is unfrozen) :)
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Re: Last minute rules questions

Postby GhostEcho » 07 Feb 2011, 17:09

Pedros wrote:3.
So if England decided to create a s.c. in Yorkshire, would that count as a controlled s.c. in the Winter even if they never moved a unit there?
The rule doesn't directly answer this, but I think the rule you quote does say Yes to that:
a player may elect to create a new s.c. in any space instead of a geophysical attack, whether he/she controls that space or not.
So, Yes!


Woah! Question: I read this the complete opposite way: you can create an SC anywhere, but that doesn't mean you control it. I think you have to play it this way, otherwise some countries (England, France) get a huge advantage over others (Austria, Turkey) that have little or no "free space". The advantage of creating an SC has to be offset by the disadvantage of having to take possession of the space.

Pedros wrote:I've just received the following suggestion (which is a new one) from laserr by PM. I don't want to go on prolonging this, so unless it gets a seconder by 1900 GMT we'll go on with the winning vote just as before.

laserr wrote:(A frozen SC...) Stays controlled by the same player and when somebody stays there through winter, the SC is his, just as it is in the classic game...although a "frozen SC" can be interesting mechanism (SC stays ONLY to the player who was controling it, nobody can take it until the land is unfrozen) :)


This sounds good to me, actually; if a space is frozen meaning nobody can stay there, then either a) it remains unchanged or b) the SC should be destroyed completely. Either one.
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Re: Geophysical Diplomacy - complete; reserves wanted

Postby vaderi » 11 Feb 2011, 06:13

Woah! Question: I read this the complete opposite way: you can create an SC anywhere, but that doesn't mean you control it. I think you have to play it this way, otherwise some countries (England, France) get a huge advantage over others (Austria, Turkey) that have little or no "free space". The advantage of creating an SC has to be offset by the disadvantage of having to take possession of the space.


This is what I thought the rules meant as well, I'd much prefer it this way.
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Rule addition

Postby Pedros » 12 Feb 2011, 09:38

Hi all. I've added one further clarification to the rules. Since creating an SC is "instead of a geophysical attack" that means it isn't an attack. Therefore it succeeds even if the space is stabilized.
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Re: Geophysical Diplomacy - complete; reserves wanted

Postby Caladin » 13 Feb 2011, 11:05

I'll reserve.
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Re: Geophysical Diplomacy - complete; reserves wanted

Postby Pedros » 15 Feb 2011, 18:32

Thanks Caladin. You're on the list
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