Submarines! (4 of 7)

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Submarines! (4 of 7)

Postby Woolgie » 05 Aug 2020, 13:58

Submarines!

This game will be run on the standard map, but with changes to the rules to allow for, you guessed it… Submarines!

The game will be run on Discord with results posted in this forum as well as on Discord.

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Countries/Powers

England (Orange)
Russia (Purple)
Italy (Green)
France (Blue)
Germany (Yellow)
Turkey (Cyan)
Austria (Red)

Selecting Countries

Players must submit their county preferences as a PM to myself, clearly marked, and include all seven countries in a ranked list. No bidding / point scoring is involved.

Countries shall be awarded to players based on a least overall rank method, whereby if you were awarded your first preference then +1 is added to the overall rank, if you receive your second preference then +2 is added to the overall rank etc. The combination of awards which results in the least overall rank shall prevail. Where combinations of award have equal overall rank (not very likely) then a dice roll shall be used to determine the prevailing combination of awards.

If you're interested, for the maths behind this method see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_algorithm

Players Signed Up
Custer
Pops2112
Springbutt46
ColonelApricot

Reserves
AKFD

Full Rules

All standard diplomacy rules apply with the following variations and house rules:

Units

Armies and Fleets exist as within the standard rules. All move options for Armies and Fleets are as per the standard rules, however when a Fleet is ordered to Hold it shall automatically detect submarines using sonar in the space it is occupying and all adjacent spaces. This detection occurs after any completed submarine movements have occurred and provided that the Fleet making the detection has not been dislodged. An order for a Fleet to Convoy, Support or Move will result in no detection being made.

Submarines are a new unit type for this game. Submarines may be built in coastal home SCs. All powers with at least 1 SC may elect to build a single submarine without an associated supply centre (i.e. If a power has three supply centres they may have three Armies/Fleets/Submarines linked to those SCs and one Submarine not linked to an SC. Submarines may move as per fleets, however they may also Dive and Surface.

Players do not start with any Submarines.

Special Rule for Austria. Austria may use Albania (if vacant) as a submarine building location as well as Trieste. No other powers can ever use Albania as a build location and Austria can’t use it if it’s occupied. Austria can use it so long as it has a build available and Albania is vacant.

Special Rule for Denmark and Constantinople. A submarine may be underwater in Denmark and Constantinople. It may both dive and surface in these locations or pass through between adjacent seas whilst staying underwater. This is for the purpose of allowing transit between seas. The sub must surface in order to take ownership of the territory if it is in other hands. To be clear both Denmark and Constantinople have a surface and underwater region, both of which can be occupied by different units.

Orders

For the avoidance of doubt Armies may: Move, Hold, Support
For the avoidance of doubt Fleets may: Move, Hold, Support, Convoy
For the avoidance of doubt Submarines may: Move, Hold, Support, Dive, Surface

Submarines ordered to Dive may elect to Dive in-place or Dive to an adjacent sea region. If neither is specified then the Submarine will Dive in-place.

A submarine on land (coastal region) may not Dive.

Submarines ordered to Surface will Surface in-place. NB. This prevents a Submarine attacking a land region from an underwater position.

Submarines ordered to Support must be able to move to the supported destination. For this purpose all sea spaces are considered to be two spaces – one at the surface and one underwater. Example 1: A submarine at the surface in the North Sea may support a move from Yorkshire to Edinburgh, however a submarine underwater in the North Sea may not since it cannot move to Edinburgh. Example 2: A submarine in Edinburgh may support a move on the surface from North Sea to Norwegian Sea but may not support a move underwater from the North Sea to Norwegian Sea since it cannot move directly to be underwater in the Norwegian Sea. Example 3: A Submarine at the surface in the North Sea may support a move underwater from the North Atlantic Ocean to Norwegian Sea since it can move directly to be underwater in the Norwegian Sea (through the Dive order).

Submitting Orders

Title all orders clearly. All orders should be sent in an individual, clear and unambiguous Discord message to myself only. Any orders posted where others can view them will be ignored. If orders are sent in a confusing or ambiguous manner but I can discern the message as orders then I shall, however if the nature of the message is ambiguous in my opinion then it shall not be counted as orders regardless of the originator's intent.

Orders should be clear and unambiguous. Full territory names or official abbreviations are acceptable as are words such as MOVE, ATTACK, HIT or simply a hyphen for movement orders so long as the territories involved are clear. Where an unofficial abbreviation is used then if I can discern unambiguous intent I shall. However if an official but incorrect abbreviation is used this will be deemed an illegal order and replaced with a HOLD. E.g. if you write Swe-Nor, even though Sweden can only move to Norway and not Norwegian Sea I cannot discern whether you meant to move to Norway or Norwegian Sea and so this will be deemed an illegal order and replaced with a HOLD.

If I cannot discern a full set of orders and there is sufficient time before then deadline then I will contact you to advise you of such (sufficient time being time which fits my own personal schedule).

IF IN DOUBT, USE THE FULL TERRITORY NAMES.

If you find a mistake in my adjudication, please report is as soon as you see it. If it isn't reported before the next movement phase, it is final and will not be corrected.

Multiple Orders and Revised Orders

If two or more orders for the same unit are entered in a single PM, then I will use only the one lower down the message (i.e. the last one) and ignore the other(s). To reduce the possibility of me losing orders I will accept ONLY the last orders message received from each player during each phase. Each new orders message received will classify any previous orders message as void. Therefore, make sure you include all orders required for a phase in each orders message. Do not sent orders across multiple messages as only the most recent message will count.

Questions

If you ask a rules question then if it's clear I'll answer it; if it's something not clearly covered by the game rules I'll do my best, but in the light of argument from other players I might change my mind after the adjudication. If you think I'm wrong, I expect you to say so loudly and with clear reasons; if you do, I'll listen and consider the arguments (and allow an extension whilst it's sorted out). If a question is asked privately then it will be answered privately, however if the rules need to be changed or clarified as a result of a question then reference to the question will be posted as a message to all players, but without reference to the player who asked the question so far as is practicable.

Deadlines

Deadlines will be 4/2/2 in days from the time the new map is posted. Deadlines with generally be 20:00 BST (GMT+1) but may vary. Because of the general deadline time some phases may be up to three hours shorter than the scheduled number of days if I post results after 20:00 BST. Following a deadline I will endeaver to post results within 24 hours, and ideally within 3 hours but on some days this will not be possible.

Adjudication

I make no commitment to send messages advising of imminent deadlines unless I am feeling kind. In any case these messages will be posted publicly, and I will not encourage privately anyone to submit orders. You will have the previous adjudication forum post and Discord message to advise you of the next deadline.

Speed deadlines: unless orders are marked as provisional, I will process orders as soon as I've received orders from everyone. I encourage players to send in provisional orders, and you're welcome to update and change your orders as often as you like before the deadline (see Revised Orders). You may update provisional orders to finalized if you wish. There is no pressure at any time to finalize orders however, it's an option not a requirement.

If you submit an orders PM after the deadline has passed but before I start the adjudication process then those orders will be accepted, however this must be before I start and not simply before I post the results.

Each player will be given one grace period for the whole game, of up to 24 hours duration, after which they will have NMRd and all their units will Hold. Following a second NMR they will be removed from the game, a new player will be found and the deadline will be extended to allow the new player to submit orders for the NMRd phase.

Requests for delays

Reasonable requests for delays will be accepted. Last minute requests on a 4 day deadline because you don't have access will not be accepted, considering you've had the whole deadline to send in provisional orders at the very least. Please give as much notice as possible if you need a delay--sometimes life happens, but if you know 6 months ahead that you're going on a 10 day vacation with no internet access and it falls during the game, don't wait until the day before you leave to ask for a pause! Typically, requests should be made a minimum of 7 days before the start of the proposed delay, however any request will be considered.

If you need a substitute, it is your responsibility to find one.

Win Condition

Any player that holds 18 SCs or more after a fall phase is considered a solo winner.

All draws must be voted through unanimously by all remaining players on the board, but they do not have to include all survivors. A draw can be proposed at any time, and will be cancelled as soon as one veto is recorded. Draw voting will be done anonymously through direct messages to me only. Players are allowed to discuss their votes, but only those received through private message to me will be recorded and considered official. Any vote posted where others can see it does not count and will be void, it will also not void any vote already sent to me by direct message.

NMRs

An NMRs will result in all that players units holding.

Two NMRs and that player will be removed from the game. Retreats and Builds are not applicable for NMRs with retreating units being destroyed and builds not occurring.

If an NMR leads to expulsion then there will be a pause while I try to replace them, and the current phase clock will reset in full to 4 or 2 days as applicable from the moment the new player joins. If there is no replacement found within 7 days then I reserve the right to place a country in Civil Disorder instead of continuing to find a replacement. I reserve the right to eject a player before meeting all the NMR criteria, should their responsiveness (or lack thereof) to my messages warrant it.

If there are disband orders required and which are not submitted then I will disband units in accordance with the standard diplomacy rules.

Errors in adjudication

I'm only human, so there's the possibility of mistakes. Please check the map after orders to be sure I have it right, especially if there's a particularly thorny situation in play. Any error not reported by the next movement or build phase is final*, so say something as soon as you see it.

*If there is an error in number of builds awarded and the game then advances to the point of the next Spring orders deadline, the builds will be corrected at the next build phase from when the error is noticed. This is the only exception to the 'error not caught by the next phase is final' rule.

And of course, the GM's decision is final.
Last edited by Woolgie on 14 Feb 2021, 13:38, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby admiralspunky » 05 Aug 2020, 14:31

I don't understand why a submarine would ever move and not dive. In fact, why not just have submarines be permanently underwater, unless they're in a land square? That would simplify the rules.
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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby Woolgie » 05 Aug 2020, 17:17

admiralspunky wrote:I don't understand why a submarine would ever move and not dive. In fact, why not just have submarines be permanently underwater, unless they're in a land square? That would simplify the rules.


I toyed with that idea, but realistically Subs would surface to launch an attack, although they still need to be able to attack the space they’re in when surfacing so this is allowed.

This still allows for ‘invisible’ units whilst moving underwater, but allowing them to attack land whilst invisible would make them too strong.
I ran Play Diplomacy League for a time and then I set it free
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Still proud of my solo in Versailles Fog Chaos
WDC 2020 38th place
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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby Pops2112 » 06 Aug 2020, 08:09

I love this idea, as per the original Forum thread about it. One rules question ...

Apologies if I am being dense, but I do not understand this bit of the Sub-specific rules:-

"All powers with at least 1 SC may elect to build a single submarine with an associated supply centre (i.e. If a power has three supply centres they may have three Armies/Fleets/Submarines linked to those SCs and one Submarine not linked to an SC)."

That appears to suggest a power with three SCs using them to support four units in total - 'three linked to SCs and one not linked to an SC' - is that right?
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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby Woolgie » 06 Aug 2020, 13:51

Pops2112 wrote:That appears to suggest a power with three SCs using them to support four units in total - 'three linked to SCs and one not linked to an SC' - is that right?


Correct, although I meant to say without an SC. That was a typo which I have corrected. So everyone gets an extra unit but it must be a submarine.
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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby hsiale » 06 Aug 2020, 15:21

Woolgie wrote:When a Fleet is ordered to Hold it shall automatically detect submarines using sonar in the space it is occupying and all adjacent spaces. This detection occurs after any completed submarine movements have occurred and provided that the Fleet making the detection has not been dislodged.

Are the results of the detection made known to all players, or only to the owner of the detecting fleet?

Woolgie wrote:Submarines are a new unit type for this game. Submarines may be built in coastal home SCs. All powers with at least 1 SC may elect to build a single submarine without an associated supply centre (i.e. If a power has three supply centres they may have three Armies/Fleets/Submarines linked to those SCs and one Submarine not linked to an SC. Submarines may move as per fleets, however they may also Dive and Surface.

Players do not start with any Submarines.

I think this rule puts Austria at serious disadvantage. All other powers have 2-3 coastal home SCs, with at least one of them reasonably safe to leave empty for a build in Fall 1901. Austria has only Trieste and it is super easy for Italy to either conquer it or at least force Austria to keep it occupied, so Austria in the opening is either a unit down or at complete mercy of Italy.
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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby Pops2112 » 06 Aug 2020, 15:37

Thanks for that clarification.

Some more for you (sorry):
1. I assume Subs at the surface will be visible to all, so it will be obvious if a surface Sub has been ordered to Dive; once underwater, though, if Subs will be invisible unless/until they surface, I assume underwater-underwater Sub movement will NOT be reported in any 'Order History' at the end of each phase. Correct?
2. If a surface Fleet detects an underwater Sub (via Hold/Sonar), is that info. only for the detecting Fleet's Power (who can choose to share it, or lie about it, as they may wish), or does the detected Sub become visible to all? How will the successful Sub detection be reported to the detecting Fleet's Power?
3. Going back to my original query and your clarification, WHERE will a Power be allowed to Build 1 x 'detached' Sub? Must that still be Built at a vacant, coastal Home SC? The preceding post suggesting Austria will be (even) more difficult in this variant assumes 'yes', I think.
4. Will each player need to keep track of where their own u/w Subs are (I assume yes, because otherwise as GM you'd have to be creating 7 separate maps each phase, each one showing a different set of Sub positions as respectively known to each player)?
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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby Custer » 06 Aug 2020, 16:26

Marking me turf......

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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby springbutt46 » 06 Aug 2020, 16:37

AS a former submariner... I am DEEPLY interested in this variant.
As a model builder I am interested in seeing a BOARD that would allow this game to be played... something like a three level chess board in plexiglass with a layer beneath the main board, but vertical boundries that hold up the land masses...
count me in.... what is the discord channel?

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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby Woolgie » 06 Aug 2020, 17:33

hsiale wrote:I think this rule puts Austria at serious disadvantage. All other powers have 2-3 coastal home SCs, with at least one of them reasonably safe to leave empty for a build in Fall 1901. Austria has only Trieste and it is super easy for Italy to either conquer it or at least force Austria to keep it occupied, so Austria in the opening is either a unit down or at complete mercy of Italy.


A very good point, and I think Austria needs to be offered a submarine build location (Albania unless there are any objections?) This wouldn’t be a new SC and wouldn’t be able to build armies or fleets, but would be able to build submarines as long as Austria still has at least one SC.
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