Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

4-qualifying rounds and a Final Board. TDs: Uncle Monty, Samarkand, Sheddy Winner: bitwise.

Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby Master Radishes » 18 Mar 2009, 19:51

* ENGLAND (jeanphi) - WINNER
* FRANCE (GruGloG) - WINNER
* ITALY - surrendered (Grymm)
* GERMANY (Diplomat) - WINNER
* AUSTRIA (Flatley)
* TURKEY (Sheddy)
* RUSSIA (Master Radishes) - Should've won...


Mine can be summed up in three words.

DAMN WESTERN TRIPLES!
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby Flatley » 18 Mar 2009, 20:20

Funny to hear you say that, as it seems you were actively working on giving the game over to them.

I'll write up the full AAR later tonight, maybe tomorrow.
The enemy's gate is down.

Don't go thinkin' you so bad jes cuz you was in SOLDIER.

We've always been at war with Eastasia.
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby GruGloG » 18 Mar 2009, 21:10

Wut? The players-list on this one really surprised me :P.
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby Flatley » 18 Mar 2009, 21:16

Yeah, this was definitely the main table of the series. We should really have a rematch.

I wonder who played Italy.
The enemy's gate is down.

Don't go thinkin' you so bad jes cuz you was in SOLDIER.

We've always been at war with Eastasia.
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby Diplomat » 18 Mar 2009, 21:22

Now that the game is over I'll go into the game and see who was there.
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby GruGloG » 18 Mar 2009, 21:24

Diplomat wrote:Now that the game is over I'll go into the game and see who was there.


I was not :(... But it worked out anyway :P:
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby Diplomat » 18 Mar 2009, 22:21

Grymm was Italy it appears.
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby Diplomat » 18 Mar 2009, 23:21

I feel as if I've written this before.... Yes In Bullfighter:

http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2081&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=bullfighter

After Action Report: Tournament Game Amstel
Resolution: 3 Player Draw, Fall 1909, between England, France, and Germany
By: Diplomat as Germany

* ENGLAND (jeanphi) - WINNER 8 Centers
* FRANCE (GruGloG) - WINNER 10 Centers
* ITALY - surrendered (Grymm) 0 Centers
* GERMANY (Diplomat) - WINNER 10 Centers
* AUSTRIA (Flatley) 1 Center
* TURKEY (Sheddy) 5 Centers
* RUSSIA (Master Radishes) - Should've won... 0 Centers

From that post... upon review it is basically the same with just a few changes...

Drew Germany, one of my least favorite powers on the board. Germany’s options are limited and in the end game Germany is my least favorite simply because it is in the middle of the board.. oh well. Opening diplomacy is fairly standard, though Russia's absence in the initial stages of the game made my going with the triple far more likely. In this game I left the east alone mostly as they seemed fairly chaotic anyway without my help. The triple formed right away with everyone on board. We only had 1 hiccup, when England took Kiel thinking Russia would go there. After that it was patient growth and watching for mistakes and where we could see patterns we could take advantage of. Once Turkey moved a unit to Apu to prop up Italy the game was over, it was just a matter of time. Doing that meant The Balkans lacked a unit to form a stalemate and we did everything we could to keep that unit in Apu alive til the game ended.

I will explain a bit about Russia. I had guessed who Russia was due to the absense, since I knew MR had been gone for a few days from the forums. I pegged him and he immediately knew who I was from my messages (I made no effort to hide my communication in this game, unlike Stella) I suppose. He was in trouble, had no friends, and I was in the triple already so I made a deal that I would not finish him off and allow him to advance if he could as long as he pushed south. Eventually his unit died and after 1905 I finished off the last of his units. This was a bit of a tension builder with the triple, as I don't think England trusted Russia like I did, but it all worked out.

Once the triple got rolling I started putting units east ASAP to mess up any planned resistance so though I took Vienna and Bud at various times the goal was to keep the stalemate line in Boh/Tyr/Sil from forming up rather than gaining and holding centers. The end game was easy. Germany has to protect himself from a possible stab and I did that and keep pushing towards Buglaria taking as many centers as he can outpacing England at least since France is usually as forward committed as Germany is. As long as England does not turn on one or the other there will be no problem and, if England does turn, as long as you have a center count lead you can hold them back as long as France does not join in.

* ENGLAND (jeanphi) - Excellent game and I thought we had played before and I was right, though I was not sure it was you when we were guessing. You had me pegged as you can see with your 1st guess so feel free to tell me how when you get a moment. Good game, well played. The only problem I would have was your failure to DMZ which kept tensions high in the triple. I even talked to France about it at one point to see if I could feel out a possible ally, or enemy, with hidden motives. Just moving Nth to Norway or Norwe would have solved that problem. Good strategic vision and excellent contributions to the discussions on moves.

* FRANCE (GruGloG) - Excellent as well, though we have not played much before I was happy to see your discussion on strategy each turn showed a good grasp of the tactics. Some players will have trouble with the sparse communication but you explained it early and so that helped out knowing how busy you were.

* ITALY - (Grymm) - I know Grymm is a good player and we did not talk much in this game so not much to say.

* AUSTRIA (Flatley) - Like Grymm above, a good player and good communication when we had it going and a good opponent when we did not.

* TURKEY (Sheddy) - Well played as Turkey. I thought you might advance into Austria fast enough to stalemate the west but you got going a turn too late against Austria and then you backed off and allowed Austria to live and help the resistance so once he started to fall as we found the pressure points you really did not have a chance.

* RUSSIA (Master Radishes) - tough luck not being able to play that first few days, thats a killer. MR has my total respect so no need to belabor the point here.
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby Master Radishes » 19 Mar 2009, 00:48

Well, not much else to say – Dip basically summed up my position. The game had an unfortunate start date for me, as it was right when I got busy with real life, and I was barely logging on each day to keep from NMRing, let alone able to conduct opening negotiations for a tournament game. So when I finally did realise that, oh crap, I haven’t talked to anyone yet, it was too late. Everyone responded positively to my late messages, but when the turn resolved and I had E/G/A/T all coming at me, I was not unduly surprised. Looks like an early exit for me.

Of course, it became very apparent right away that there was a Western Triple in play too. Discovering Dip was in Germany only confirmed this to me. ;) I immediately tried to rally my southern neighbours to the cause, both for my own survival, and for all of theirs – the WT is probably one of if not the most dangerous alliance on the board, possibly only outdone by the Juggernaut. Since they’re so popular nowadays, I figure everyone else realised this too. Certainly, everyone responded that yes, we should band together to stop it. Great, maybe we can halt Dip’s damn WT in its tracks!

Nope. Austria and Turkey keep attacking me. Apparently only Italy realised the urgent danger of a WT bearing down on us.

So now I’m stick between A/T and E/G, both out to get me. So what do I do? I execute my right to decide who wins the game, and threw the game to the WT. If my southern neighbours won’t stop lying to me and actually act against the imminent danger on the board, why do they deserve a chance to win? Dip had been the only honest one with me, and while France and England never responded to me, Dip at least deserved my centres, if anyone were to get them.

So I let A/T/I know of my decision, and they insult me for it, but I ignore them and talk to Dip, and we broker a deal whereby he’d allow me to stay alive till 1905 so I could get an extra detour point. Not much, but hey, I’ll take what I can get. Plus, I had forced him to give up Berlin to me anyway, so this way I wouldn’t cause trouble in my bid to stay alive for awhile. At the end of my allotted time, I briefly considered trying to grab another centre to keep trying to stay alive, but Dip had been nice to me and so I returned the favour and went out without any trouble.

Congrats to the WT. Can’t say I’m too sad to see the others fall to it.
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Re: Tounament Game - Amstel AARs

Postby AQ » 19 Mar 2009, 01:30

Master Radishes wrote:Dip at least deserved my centres, if anyone were to get them.


Hate to open up the old elitism argument but... if it wasn't Dip, would you have so easily thrown the game to the WT?
I think there's a subconscious trust and respect thingy going on, whatever that means, amongst players who well, kind of, trust and respect each other. You sussed it was Dip, you trusted him; better the devil you know when it comes to influencing the outcome when peeved with an Austria and Turkey that keep attacking you.
How different is that to a predetermined alliance but in a more subtle and perverse way? You entered the game with predetermined trust relationships defined based on experience.

Or maybe once you sussed it was Dip, better he got the points since he's guaranteed to be in the final anyway?
Point is that we are supposed to be anonymous and your decisions were possibly affected by the fact that anonymity was lost though familiarity?

This is not a dig but a genuine question on how subtle predetermined alliances can get before they are lost in the noise.
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