Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

4-qualifying rounds and a Final Board. TDs: Uncle Monty, Samarkand, Sheddy Winner: bitwise.

Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby 22.rhathaway » 12 Mar 2009, 01:32

ENGLAND (superhik)
FRANCE (lotr_freak)
ITALY (rick.leeds)
GERMANY (sanje)
AUSTRIA (22.rhathaway)
TURKEY (bitwise) WINNER
RUSSIA (AQ) WINNER

Let the AAR's begin. I am going to wait to write mine because I have my Masters class this weekend and am a little behind on my homework :(

DEFINITELY A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID IN THIS ONE!

Sit back and enjoy, it may get ugly...
“A real diplomat is one who can cut his neighbor's throat without having his neighbor notice it.”
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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby Diplomat » 12 Mar 2009, 02:19

A Jugger won this? Oh man... Of course Bit and AQ are both accomplished players so I can see it. Can't wait for some good reading.
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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby AQ » 12 Mar 2009, 05:01

I liked this game. Possibly something to do with 6 points. I'm shallow that way ;)
The biggest surprise was to find out Bitwise was Turkey. I'm guessing he play-acted a little and I was convinced I was dealing with an eager beaver, wet behind the ears. At one point I even mentioned to Germany I thought Turkey was inexperienced and tactically weak but turns out he had big sharp beaver teeth.

If Bitwise hadn't "taxed" me and taken Rumania when I stabbed Germany I probably would have made a fatal mistake and tried for a solo. Been there, seen it, got the t-shirt, never done it though and I'm glad I got out alive with the points I did.

I was assigned Russia... again! Out of 4 tournament games, this was the 3rd as Russia. There's something dodgy about this site's random seed generator. However I'm sure the person that was given Austria 3 times is now thinking "shut the £$%^....

... up".

Everyone gets in touch with Russia, they all love me. They all do until they can work out how to get rid of me. I believe Russia is hard to play; her natural strength is more than balanced by the fears of others, especially in a tournament when points influence decisions. However straight away I get a message from Turkey saying let's do the "Slingshot" Juggernaut. I hum and haw, try and sound intelligent, but eventually own up to not knowing what the heck he was talking about. I'm just into double figures for games. He obliges with a link from the Pouch. It looks good, especially since the author hints Russia eventually turned it into a solo. Turkey is my new best friend, and not just for Christmas.

Only problem is it seems like I'm the only idiot that's *never* heard of the juggershot thingy.

It all goes to plan... for a whole year and a bit. Austria thinks he is playing us both, with Turkey being the favored one that supposedly wins Austria's heart. To be honest I had no idea if Austria believed us but the moves seemed to be unfolding exactly to plan. That is until we were about to spring the convoyed trap and Germany drops the not so subtle hint that he knows all about the slingshot and the price for keeping quiet was a piece of the pie. About a third, or 4 points to be exact. Who were we to disagree?

Unfortunately it rapidly goes from bad to worse and Austria also mentions he knows about the slingshot too! Some trap this was turning out to be and I'm thinking about how to save face. Canceling my subscription and blaming it on PayPal seemed the honorable way out.

In the end we decided to slug it out with Austria and enjoy a threesome with Germany.
It was a beautiful relationship while it lasted. More interesting than a Western Triple but ultimately boring... like a Western Triple. I don't like WT's, probably because I've never been invited to the party. Germany had serious issues with France, who seemed to be lying to everyone, so the WT was out and the TGR was in. It was easy. Any triple is easy if coordinated and we were posting our moves to each other in complete trust. We were all happy with 4 points each.

Then I screwed up.

I had been in a position to stab Germany for at least a year but I hadn't. I was a gentleman after all and Germany was my best friend.
I guess, as in all relationships at some point, I got bored and asked Turkey if he was interested in renewing the original juggernaut. However he was adamant that it was too risky. I disagreed but for some reason reckoned he was even greener than me and grateful he was getting some points. It was too risky to stab Germany on my own, even if it was a fatal blow. If Turkey took objection out of principle and turned on me I would be dead.

Germany proposed a 3-way draw and I accepted.
However the disappointed part of me ordered the stab with the logic that it would only happen if someone rejected the draw.

Obviously there was a flaw in my (crap) logic. That is, what would happen if the draw wasn't accepted before the deadline passed? i.e. no-one rejected it but... My fiance found me repeatedly banging my head on the desk. The word idiot was escaping my lips preceded by a word all good Christians wouldn't know how to do do properly unless they were Missionaries.

I had stabbed Germany and I didn't mean to!!! Well, obviously I had clicked the clicky thing and ordered those moves but I didn't think they would see the light of day, even if I knew they were the right thing to do. I had a choice, I could retreat from taking 3 centers or... maybe Turkey can change his mind.

At this point Turkey (i.e, Bitwise) showed he had bite. He accepted that my move had changed the outcome into a 2-way but decided to "tax" me Rumania to level out our centre count. It was then I realized he wasn't the newbie I thought he was and I would be lucky to get out of this alive. Common sense prevailed and although Germany initially rejected a Juggernaut draw, they couldn't hold out and eventually agreed to let Russia and Turkey prevail.

Would have I went for a solo? Yes if Bitwise hadn't taken Rumania. However once that immediate danger was over and he moved away from threatening Sevastopol I did think about it again. I was well placed to take out England and Germany by 1910 but if Bitwise could get an edge and get 2 builds before me he would have shown no mercy. 12 points would have guaranteed me a place on the final table. Now I wait and see along with everyone else.
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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby gazdip1 » 12 Mar 2009, 05:08

Nice one AQ that was a good read :)
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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby superhik » 12 Mar 2009, 11:44

22.rhathaway wrote:ENGLAND (superhik)
FRANCE (lotr_freak)
ITALY (rick.leeds)
GERMANY (sanje)
AUSTRIA (22.rhathaway)
TURKEY (bitwise) WINNER
RUSSIA (AQ) WINNER

Let the AAR's begin. I am going to wait to write mine because I have my Masters class this weekend and am a little behind on my homework :(

DEFINITELY A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID IN THIS ONE!

Sit back and enjoy, it may get ugly...



Uhhh i agree 100% this one was total mess from my point of view.

First it should be told very clearly that this game was pure diplomatic victory for both AQ and bitwise

01:
I made contact with F/G/R
I was drawn to play England and from the start i thought that it will be tough to convince all board that there is no WT (because most of the times there is :) )

In this year there were a lot of messages from Germany and France. I quickly agreed with France about channel and i felt pretty safe after first round of moves.

Russia went to Armenia, Moscow went south. France opened anti-german.
My main worry at this point was German, i wanned to cooperate with sanje but his messages was confusing as much as his opening he developed F Kie - Hol and bounce me out of Belgium!

At this point i must say following - i was totally blined by AQ's dip and movement on south (great job man)
Also there was so much contradiction from both France and German so i had to turn to Russia - i was almost 100% sure that F/G are playing me

02:
After this point everything was already done
Jugger was developing and i was lost.

When i say lost i mean on two things:
First my position was terrible :( (thanks to me)
And second i was playing with France against G/R/T !(?)

From my point of view there could be no chance that those 3 will end game. Proven right Russia stabbed Germany before he ate first wurst that day :)
I rejected that silly 3way offer as it was unfair and afterward R/T deserved that win...


Conclusion
I made terrible mistake by not communicating with A/I but there was simply no time for that
Also this is first time i was driven crazy on both sides (F/G) - so my conclusion that a lack of good quality communication decided winners on the other side.

All cheers goes to AQ - quality dip, greatly covered Jugger... deserved win 100%

Painful game but i learned a lot from this one.
Greetz, Nik.

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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby bitwise » 12 Mar 2009, 13:44

AFTER ACTION REPORT - NEWCASTLE

Game Players
ENGLAND (superhik)
FRANCE (lotr_freak)
ITALY (rick.leeds)
GERMANY (sanje)
AUSTRIA (22.rhathaway)
TURKEY (bitwise)
RUSSIA (AQ)

Winner(s): Russia and Turkey

Introduction:
Yeah, we actually pulled off a Juggernaut in a tournament game. An accomplishment that I'll cherish for some time. But it sure was a bumpy ride, which required some very tough decisions along the road. Fortunately it seems like I made the right decisions, since I ended up with 6 points, but I had my doubts at the time.

Initial strategy and diplomacy:
I drew Turkey and felt bad about it, since I just got clubbered like a baby seal in another tournament game as Turkey. I really needed to get either Russia or Austria on my side this time.
The initial diplomacy was of very high class all over the board. I tried to sell the idea of a "Slingshot Juggernaut" to Russia, and as he claimed ignorance, I sent him a link to an article about it, which conveniently mentioned a high potential for a Russian solo. Meanwhile I approached Austria with an offer of alliance against Russia, which he didn't flat out reject either.
Then it got interesting. Italy approached me with a suggestion that we should attack Austria right from the beginnning. He also told me, that France was heading for Germany. France on the other hand told me, that I would be best off allying with Austria against Russia. I got the feeling that something fishy was going on, and that France and Italy were getting along a little to well for my liking.
Germany came across as very likeable, and he had the same reading on France and Italy as I did. Naturally I tried to get him to open anti-Russian, although I was hoping that he wouldn't, if Russia accepted the Slingshot proposal. The good thing was, that nothing about Germany set off my Western Triple detector. That would be a welcome change.
Russia came back and say that he had bought into the idea of a Slingshot Jugger, and Austria also looked like he was prefering me over Russia. Excellent.
I didn't talk much with England due to distance, but somehow I had a vision of him siding with France rather than Germany. I didn't want Germany to fall to Western aggression before the Jugger had gained momentum, so when I heard rumours of Italy opening to Tyrolia, I advised Germany to counter it with his army in Munich.

Spring 01:
I desided to stick to the Slingshot plan. The good thing about the Slingshot is, that Turkey can easily turn on Russia rather than hitting Austria, so I still had both options open. Now I just had to cross my fingers and hope that nobody picked up on the tell-tale move of Smyrna-Ankara rather than the expected Smyrna-Armenia. Germany and Italy bounced in Tyrolia. Great, that made me Germanys best friend, which could be useful later on. I also took the opportunity to approach Italy and frame France for the leak. :twisted: In the West the Channel was left open confirming my suspicions of E/F collaboration.

Then disaster number 1 hits. Germany has already spotted the Slingshot, and he wants in on the action. Russia and I have little choice but to start including him in the loop to buy his silence. France seems very happy about my apparant choice of Austria as a partner instead of Russia, but he only shrugs at Italys failed attempt to get to Tyrolia. Did I misread something here? Is it really a hidden E/F/A alliance rather than the more obvious E/F/I? It actually made good sense, when I reread the initial messages from France.

Fall 01:
Russia and I carry on with the Slingshot moves and I destroy his fleet in Armenia, which is step one of the plan. But the interesting stuff happens elsewhere on the board. E/F makes a joint effort at taking BEL, but Germany foils it. Italy has apparantly bought the idea that it was France who sold him out to Germany and he now heads West. This is extremely bad timing for him, as Austria makes an unexpected stab at Venice which allows him to double up. Damn, a 6 center Austria wasn't part of the Slingshot plan.

Now, enter disaster number 2. Austria reveals that he also have seen through the camouflage of the Jugger. What's wrong with these people? Don't they have a life? How can they spot a Slingshot Juggernaut so easily? :mrgreen: Anyway, Austria points out that given his strength and my position, it would be wise to pursue an A/T 2-way instead. It's time for critical decision number 1: Continue the Slingshot or turn on Russia? This was an extremely hard decision to make, but when Russia in a different context revealed that France had approached him suggesting that Russia allied with Austria against me, I came to the conclusion that there really was a covert E/F/A alliance, and that abandoning Russia and Germany would only speed up the momentum of E/F. Even if Austria was genuine about going for a 2-way with me, we would be poorly positioned to fight a Western Jugger efficiently. So I made up my mind and prayed that I wouldn't regret it.

Spring 02:
Obviously Austria kept up his Juggernaut defense but at least I was able to start moving out my fleets, before Austria realized that I wasn't jumping on his boat. My allies were working together well in the North, and Italy was in deep trouble. It also looked like France could be heading East.

I decided to include Italy in my plans against Austria and offered to support him into Greece. Also I remain civil with Austria and explained partially why I made the choice to fight him.

Fall 02:
Italy got into Greece with my support, but I figured that his days were numbered anyway, as France was coming East very fast now. The Northern front was progressing as planned.

France claims that he's coming East to aid Italy against Austria. Yeah, right.

Spring 03:
Oh dear, what's going on here? :o Was France serious about aiding Italy? Why did he take Tunis with one hand and supported Italy against Austria with the other? Very confusing round.

I decide only to trust myself in the South, especially after realizing that I'm still a 4 center minor after 5 turns.

Fall 03:
I take Greece from Italy. He really wasn't useful for me anymore after having supported my fleets into the Med., and if he was a French vasal anyway, then we were bound to divorce sooner rather than later anyway. France continues to side with Italy rather than Austria. Was I wrong about E/F/A afterall?

Austria feels betrayed by France over a broken promise or something. He tells me, that I was wrong about him, but at least I was honest about it. He is going to retaliate on France with everything he has and invites be to mop up his vacated centers along the road.

Spring 04:
I gain Serbia from Austria, who is fighting heavily with France and Italy. In the North and West, my allies are closing in on the home centers of E/F.

I'm starting to notice a trend in my communication with Russia. Whenever there are 2 or more possible sets of orders I can give, he'll support the set of orders, which leaves my backyard most vacated. Nothing worrying yet, but something to keep in mind.

Fall 04:
Continued fighting across the board, while I strenghten my fleet presence around Italy.

We put up a draw offer for a G/R/T win, but Russia approaches me in private to hear if I want to ditch Germany and resume the original Jugger. I consider it seriously, but tell him that I find it too risky at this point in time. Easy decision for me really, after the observation I made last turn, combined with the fact that Russia would make all the gains by stabbing Germany. I even tell Germany, that I think Russia is set for a 2-way, and that he and I should stick together if Russia stabs either of us.

Spring 05:
Holy cow. Russia stabs Germany for 2 centers. He's in position to get another one in the Fall + he took Vienna from Austria. Personally I just got Trieste and positioned myself to take Tunis in the Fall.

Russia comes and explains that he really didn't mean it. He was just toying with some ideas and forgot to change the orders back again. A Freudian stab, I guess. ;) Since the damage is done, he reassures me, that we can win this easily, if I stick with him. Germany also calls in, pointing out that we can pull a few centers back if we work together and perhaps include England as a third wheel.

Time for critical decision number 2: Do I stay on the Juggernaut and will I survive if I do? Looking at the board it was clear that Russia was right. We could win easily if we worked together. But Russia was about to gain 4 centers this turn, while I only would gain 2, and he was bigger than me already. Would he not go for the solo? I know I would. The solution was obvious, but also risky. I could take Rumania without permission to fill all of my home centers, while he would probably have to forfeit building in Sevastopol to keep momentum in the North. But how would he react to being "taxed" so unexpectedly by an alliance partner? In the end I realized that he would have no option but to accept it.

Fall 05:
Everything works out as I planned. We both gain 3 centers, and Russia realizes that the solo is not an option right now and accepts the loss of Rumania. :P

1906-1907:
The endgame was trivial as the Jugger couldn't be stopped. The only question was, if either of us would go for the solo if given the chance. The answer is probably yes for both of us, and I would probably be the most likely to gain enough centers in one round to get a jump on Russia. However, I was satisfied with a 2-way, and the 2nd time it was proposed it was also accepted.


Evaluations:
ENGLAND (superhik): We really didn't have much communication due to distance and being in different alliances, so I can't really evaluate your game here.

FRANCE (lotr_freak): Wow, you were really busy in this game, and just when I thought I had figured your game out, you surprised me and did the opposite. I don't know if Austria was ever a secret ally of yours. Maybe you were just trying to prevent the Jugger by suggesting to both Russia and me, that they should ally with Austria.

ITALY (rick.leeds): You were probably a bit too gung-ho in your opening messages. It's rare to see an Italian invitation to Turkey to jump Austria right away, before at least trying to figure out, if Turkey is pro-Austria or anti-Austria. You had some potentially good moves, but I think you let too many in on your plans. By the time you figured out, who you could really trust, it was too late for you.

GERMANY (sanje): I don't think we've played before, but I hope we will meet soon again. I really liked your communications, which had a pleasant air of lightheartedness in them. For a while I actually thought, that you were Diplomat. I would gladly have settled for a 3-way including you, but when the dice were thrown I had to roll with it and secure my own stakes in the game.

AUSTRIA (22.rhathaway): It was no surprise to discover your identity. Communication and planning was great, even if it only was a backup plan from my point of view. You also reacted in a civil manner to my betrayal. I don't know, what kind of dealings you had with France. In retrospect, he could just be trying to prevent the Jugger by putting all his love on you in communications with me and Russia, but that didn't occur to me, when I had to make my choice. Anyway, winners write history, so I don't regret my decision, but it's always interesting to consider, what could have been.

RUSSIA (AQ): Your identity took me completely by surprise. I can't believe that I shared a win with someone who had more points than me in the tournament. Bad move. :roll: :mrgreen: Somehow I never quite got to 100% trust in our dealings, but I'm a firm believer in keeping friends close and enemies even closer. Anyway, we had some good communication and obviously we think very much alike. You're cunning and you set high goals for yourself. I like that.
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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby 22.rhathaway » 12 Mar 2009, 18:01

bitwise wrote:AUSTRIA (22.rhathaway): It was no surprise to discover your identity. Communication and planning was great, even if it only was a backup plan from my point of view. You also reacted in a civil manner to my betrayal. I don't know, what kind of dealings you had with France. In retrospect, he could just be trying to prevent the Jugger by putting all his love on you in communications with me and Russia, but that didn't occur to me, when I had to make my choice. Anyway, winners write history, so I don't regret my decision, but it's always interesting to consider, what could have been..


I will comment more later but only have 2 minutes left in lunch. It was very good to hear your reasonings behind things. Clears up my questioning of who was claiming I was in an alliance when I wasn't. It worked out well for you so you obviously made the right decision in the long run, BUT I like to think that had France not acted like such an idiot towards me that things would have been different.

My one downfall in this game is that I am just as glad making someone else NOT win than I am winning myself :?

That came into play in this game big time against France. The reason that it did not come into play against you was BECAUSE you communicated even after not choosing me to ally with (not a stab in my book because it was all in 1901/1902 that it happened).
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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby jaredstoff » 13 Mar 2009, 07:48

AQ wrote:I was assigned Russia... again! Out of 4 tournament games, this was the 3rd as Russia. There's something dodgy about this site's random seed generator. However I'm sure the person that was given Austria 3 times is now thinking "shut the £$%^....... up".


AQ, shut the £$%^ up.

Actually, I'm not sure I'm allowed to say that. I only got dealt Austria twice. :(
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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby AQ » 13 Mar 2009, 10:43

Apparently someone did get Austria 3 times, though obviously I don't know who!
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Re: Tournament Game - Newcastle AAR's

Postby 22.rhathaway » 15 Mar 2009, 21:46

So it seems like a lie from France (surprise surprise) is what tipped Turkey towards allying with Russia in the beginning...interesting.

I do not like the fact that once a game is over the messages lose their "phase" label! It makes it much harder to do the AARs.

Pre-Game - I drew Austria. As much as I don't like Austria because it means a LOT of options, I don't dread playing Austria. I immediately messaged all the usual folks, Russia to see his thoughts on going after Turkey, Turkey to see abut going after Russia, Germany and Italy both individually and together about a central triple, and France about squeezing Italy. I got favorable replys from Turkey, Italy, and Germany. Russia's response, while interested in the offer just seemed like he was covering his true intentions. Through my communications with Italy and Germany, France kept poking his head in. He told Italy that he should go after Germany. When italy agreed and said he should go to Tyrolia, I was thinking that he was in fact coming after me. Before I could mention it to Germany he had heard about it and messaged me about bouncing Tyrolia. In all of this Turkey seemed very bright and well thought out in his messages. I was hoping that he would open as he had told me and that he would join with me to fight Russia and then sweep through the board.

1901 - Things went well in the spring. I/G bounced in Tyrolia and I moved into position to take Greece as well as moved into Trieste. Russia didn't break our DMZ in Galicia, but he also moved his fleet to Armenia. I think I had only seen this move once, but it was to set up a juggernaught. I held off on calling out the jug suspicions to Turkey until I could see what the communication was like.

Turkey told me that Italy was talking to him about taking Greece instead of Tunis. I wasn't sure if this was the case or not, but decided that if I could severely weaken Italy that Turkey and I would be perfectly set up to sweep things. I decided that I would take Venice. I don't think I told anyone about it because there was too much spreading of information going on. IT WORKED, I got Greece, Serbia, and Venice in the first year. A 6 center Austria after the first year, with a Turkey that has NO threat from Russia could be a DEADLY combination.

This is when I decided to bring it to Turkey's attentiont hat I saw through their jugg opening. I explained that it was ok because the good thing was that he didn't have to decide until this point who to go with. I was all about getting a two way draw out of this game with Turkey and getting up to 10 points for the tournament. This would put me in great position to make the final table. With Italy's moves he was deathly out of position and had no way to defend Rome. This put me in position to take Rome while protecting everything else and help Turkey move into Sevastapol and Rumania to even things up.

We would have been up to 12 centers by the end of 1902 and well on our way to cruising to victory.

1902 - Then things fell apart. With the spring move, Turkey moved against me. A message immediately followed explaining his position and that he "heard from a source" that I was in fact in a different alliance with E/F. It sucked for me, but the game was FAR from over. I figured that I would lose Greece (to Italy and Turkey working together) but would be able to hold off R/T for a few years while others got into position to fight them. I was still in a good position and Italy shouldn't last long as long as France helped out.

1903 - This is when I renewed my speaking with France (and England for the first time) and asked for his help in eliminating Italy. I offered him Naples, Tunis, and ALL of Turkey in exchange for helping me defeat the guy who turned on me. All he had to was work with me for ONE year against Italy and he would be in great position to win the game. Instead, he supported Italy into Rome. After the first time, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and offered a seperate set of moves that would do the same thing that would have been accomplished before. After saying he WOULD do it, he decided not to AGAIN, and attacked me instead.

This is the point int he game where my stubbornness and temper come into play. I have no tolerance for someone who does something that is against HIS OWN BEST INTEREST. If he was willing to fight the only guy that was holding off the jug, then that is fine, I won't hold off the jug.

1904 - I messaged France and told him that he had just lost (there would be no way for them to stop the jug after I vacate my Eastern front). I also messaged Turkey and told him my plan. And with that, I moved full force to attack and fight France. By moving out for Turkey I would feed my revenge gene and "show" France. To be honest, it is an admitted downfall for me in this game. In regular games, it is an ok reputation to have (stab me and I throw the game), but it doesn't have much effect in an anonymous game.

With that being said, I have NO regrets about my actions. Diplomacy has a level of deception involved, but to flat out lie to someone when they are OFFERING TO HELP YOU, is something that I just won't tolerate. It is a move that I would expect from a young player who is still unsure of tactics. But when a deal is offered that is clearly in your best interest, then I would expect people to make that choice, not the opposite.

The rest of the game was pretty basic. If France had not lied to me two turns in a row, I think we could have defeated the jug (well, if Germany would have realized that they were not loyal to him). Either way, it would have been a much closer game had France been wiser with his moves. Instead, I was happy to settle to give the win the Turkey who had been very up front with things that he had told me.

England (superhik) - not much communication with you, even when it was clear that Turkey was in a jug relationship with Russia. You didn't reply much to the messages that I was sending.

Germany (sanje) - Not sure what your motivation was for demanding into the mix with Russia/Turkey. If they are already in a jug, what made you think that they would include you in the win when it would be just as easy to take you out of it? Our communication was good, although limited, but I think in another setting we could work well together.

Russia (AQ) - I never got the impression that you had any intention of allying with me. Your messages were always limited and didn't have a lot of thought in them. Congrats on the win nonetheless.

Italy (rick.leeds) - Looking back, I wish taht I had trusted you and worked with you against Turkey. The stab on you was simply a decision based on my belief that Turkey was setting up Russia instead of me. You fought hard and well though and I would like to be allies sometime in a game. I owe you one.

Turkey (bitwise) - not a surprise that someone as highly regarded as you would be Turkey in this game. The communication was top notch throghout and your plans were well thought out. It worked out for you, so clearly you made the right choice, but I think it would have been much easier for you had you chosen to side with me. When i told you that I was a loyal player who was satisfied with a draw, I wasn't lieing. I have no doubt that had you followed through and taken Rumania/Sevastapol in 1902 that we would have wiped the board fairly quickly. In the end, congrats on a marvelously played game.

France (LOTR) - no comment.
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