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Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 02:00
by nanooktheeskimo
A/T and I/T aren’t two way draw alliances, but they can still be strong alliances. They’re 3 way or solo alliances, high risk/high reward in other words. That doesn’t make them bad or weak alliances, it just means they’re going to be more suited to players that are OK with high risk/high reward alliances rather than safer options with higher floors but often lower ceilings.

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 16:15
by AKFD
nanooktheeskimo wrote:A/T and I/T aren’t two way draw alliances, but they can still be strong alliances. They’re 3 way or solo alliances, high risk/high reward in other words. That doesn’t make them bad or weak alliances, it just means they’re going to be more suited to players that are OK with high risk/high reward alliances rather than safer options with higher floors but often lower ceilings.


I LOVE a simple game of High-Risk, High-Reward!

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 17:45
by mhsmith0
"The lady is in the door on the left, the tiger in the door on the right"

Good luck!

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 17:52
by AKFD
mhsmith0 wrote:"The lady is in the door on the left, the tiger in the door on the right"

Good luck!


I CHOOSE THE DOOR ON THE RIGHT!

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 08 Aug 2019, 09:51
by Phlegmatic
AKFD wrote:Oh cheese,

True. I have never seen a G/R alliance.

It's actually more impossible imo


Check out 158599.

A very successful G/R, imo...

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 22 Aug 2019, 01:41
by mhsmith0
G/R can work together very effectively against England, and then Germany circles around to kill France while Russia pushes southward. It's definitely awkward long-term, but neither really *NEEDS* the other to be dead in order to prosper. Toss in Italy 3rd wheel and they can carve the board up pretty easily, all the more so if they're not obvious about it for a little while.

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 20 Sep 2019, 18:34
by Zosimus
The GR alliance works just fine, and it can be carried to a simple two-way draw down established stalemate lines that leave no possibility for stabs from either side.

Any alliance can work. AT is problematic, of course, but Austria ends up with the same situation that it has with almost any other alliance. It has to send troops away and sit with its back to its ally, a situation that often leads to stabs.

I think ER is the most difficult alliance to pull off. England almost always ends up with Norway, a supply center that is quite literally one step from a Russian home center. That never makes for comfort.

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 12 Oct 2019, 04:52
by LordDwia
The A/T alliance is one of the strongest and most resilient alliances for a shared finish. The conventional wisdom about it being unviable is outdated, and goes back to Richard Sharp's assessment.

I have written extensively on this alliance, but the essence of it is that Austria plays a southern hedgehog (arranging the Gal and Tri bounces if possible) and Turkey arranges a bounce in the black sea and then plays the Turkish hedgehog.

A Ven -> Tri
A Vie -> Gal
A Bud -> Ser

F Ank -> Arm
A Con -> Bul
A Smy -> Con

In fall, Turkey self-standoffs in Ankara. Austria builds army Budapest, and Turkey builds fleet Ankara.

In 1902, Austria makes a deal with Russia, and then betrays him and supports Bul -> Rum. Turkey takes the black sea. Sev falls in the fall. Russia is on the ropes, and the game is on.

At a strategic moment, Austria and Turkey swap Rumania and Greece, and then demil the border. Turkey builds all fleets, and Austria builds all armies.

The whole thing is incredibly smooth. Turkey has the best stab chances middle-late, and Austria has the best stab chances late-late. Two way finishes are common and easy to manufacture without meta -- though the more common result is a three-way finish with a strong England maintaining a stalemate line.

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 19 Nov 2019, 10:32
by gsmx
It really depends on the players. It's no doubt one of the harder alliances to make work, but if I'm compatible with the other player and they're willing to make the proper steps i'll absolutely try to make it work. It just comes down to Turkey being willing to build armies and go north and Austria willing to focus westward and go moderate with his fleet builds. Is it destined to eventually fail? I guess probably, but from my personal perspective all alliances are intended to eventually have an end date so i don't really let that shy me away from running with it through to mid or late game so long as i plan for a decent exit strategy.

I can't really think of many alliances i would write off as unworkable given the right partner. Some pack less of a punch (A/I for example), but that just means i need to work harder to pull in side-alliances or additional resources for an alleged triple alliance(s) while we work to whittle down the rest of the board.

Re: Turkey and Austria

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 01:40
by mhsmith0
I think the A/T alliance has two important, fundamental issues

1) If the two powers are equal on dots, Turkey is MUCH more able to stab Austria than vice-versa. It's like E/G on steroids

2) Even in an INCREDIBLY successful A/T alliance (takes all 17 "southern" centers + Munich + Berlin) it is extremely easy for the non-AT powers to set up blockades around MAO, Denmark, and St Petersburg. This means that (barring incredibly subtle machinations or, likelier, incredibly bad play by the north/west of the board) the BEST case for an A/T is to spill into some kind of 3-way draw. And it's a fairly unbalanced 3-way draw too; something like a 14 center England holding the north less Munich, Berlin, and let's say Kiel (I'd kind of guess England can force Kiel but could be wrong) would be in great position to try and worm his way into negotiating a whittled draw where A or T stab each other; alternatively, a 2 western power alliance could easily hold off A/T at all the key points, and then you've "succeeded" in making a 4wd which is pretty meh overall.

I think A/T can "work" in a short term sense of eliminating Italy and/or Russia, which is better than dying to them, but I think it's poor compared to a lot of other alliances given the inherent limitations.