Don't take it personally...?

What are your winning tactics? Kill them all? Discuss strategy for the classic and variant games using the classic map, or visit the sub-forums for the variant maps.
Forum rules
Strategy
In addition to the general Forum Guidelines (see here: http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/view ... 30&t=15441), there are additional rules for posting in this forum.
1. When discussing strategy, reference should not be made to any active game. This section of the Forum is for general strategy discussion, not specific situations within games.
2. It follows that links, images, game name and/or number should not be added to a post if the game is active.
Posts which refer to a specific situation in an active game, or which link directly to an active game, are subject to editing or removal.

Don't take it personally...?

Postby Dolph Shtoss » 31 Jul 2016, 06:15

I'm in a game where my ally is intolerable. I really don't like them. However, (s)he has proven to be tactically astute, and always makes the right call when proposing moves. Whenever I propose a move I am told I am wrong, which obviously I don't like, but I have to admit their way is always better. I also think I can trust them as an ally, not to stab me. It's just (s)he comes across as patronising. I also don't have any other option, because there is nobody else I can ally with, (don't want to give too much away, so please just take this as a given!)

I wonder what other players here would do? Stick with them, even though I'm not enjoying the game with them, or fly solo which I'm pretty sure will result in certain death. I've tried talking to other players, but I can't seem to break up their alliance(s).
Use me, don't abuse me.
If I have PMs, don't open them unless you expect to see them!
User avatar
Dolph Shtoss
 
Posts: 820
Joined: 31 Aug 2011, 17:28
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby Machiara » 31 Jul 2016, 06:23

Depends on you, really. Do you find it more intolerable to lose, or more intolerable to work with this person?

Some people don't have great interpersonal skills. And in some games two people can get in a bad relationship even if they both have great interpersonal skills, for whatever reason. I rarely take things personally, so I'd probably stick with your ally. If he's a tactical Diplomacy savant but alienates folk with his arrogance it should be easy to find people to team up against him once the alliance has run its course! :)
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught.

No idea is so outlandish that it should not be considered with a searching but at the same time a steady eye.

The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Machiara
 
Posts: 190
Joined: 02 Feb 2016, 19:50
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1961)
All-game rating: (1992)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby Durkeety » 31 Jul 2016, 07:02

If you want to win, sometimes it means working with people you dont particularly like or get along with.

If you play your hand right, you can have the satisfaction of stabbing (s)he in the end for your solo
Durkeety
Premium Member
 
Posts: 161
Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 22:20
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1655
All-game rating: 1632
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby Eleusinian » 31 Jul 2016, 07:47

Did you try confronting them about it? I played a game once where I was forced to ally with someone I found very aggravating. Finally I had enough, and told them exactly what I didn't like and why. Within a couple messages we had sorted it out, and ended up on quite good terms.

For instance, what you find patronizing they might consider respectful straightforwardness. They might actually consider it patronizing if they thought "this is an inferior approach" but then dressed it up with "hmm I like it, but what about ____."

I'm very far from an expert, so take this with a lot of salt, but I think that learning how to navigate these different styles is a big aspect of the game.
Eleusinian
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 27 Mar 2016, 21:38
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (984)
All-game rating: (981)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby edmgrim » 31 Jul 2016, 08:07

I've been told a few times that my style is a bit grating. I appreceate it when it happens. While it won't always change how I do things, it does open up a necessary dialog and also helps me for future negotiations.

One other thing. Even if I know I'm going to lose, I'm nevergoing to simply roll over and die not matter how much I personally like or dislike an ally or enemy. The only time I'll throw myself over to one side or another is if I'm a target of both. Then I'll make the tough choice of deciding which side gets to kill me.
edmgrim
 
Posts: 136
Joined: 31 May 2016, 04:15
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1077)
All-game rating: (1086)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby Jack007 » 31 Jul 2016, 14:56

Diplomacy is the art of keeping a smile on your face, no matter what your emotional state actually might be. Can be difficult, I know. But, as a former boss and teacher of me used to say during his surgical operations where I assisted him: "Uuh.. it's sooo difficult - but it's good when it's difficult, otherwise everybody could come and do it." I learned a lot from this approach for my entire life. It gives me at hands the means to instantly change my emotional state from down to up, to turn a negative point of view into strength and motivation.

For your specific problem let me say the following: it ALWAYS helps to consider the point of view of the other guy, in order to understand his motivation. Maybe he thinks you are a bit oversensitive. Maybe he prefers to be direct and pragmatic. While you apparently put more weight on the interpersonal aspects of a communicative interaction, he might see those just as useless verbiage. I don't want to go into qualifying which approach of the two is better, here. All I can say from my experience is, that almost always when somebody brought up the word "patronize" it was due to hypersensitivy of himself, will say he being someone who is too easily offended.

Considering that the other guy could have made the same experience as well, I wouldn't address the issue to him (contrary to one of the posts above), as he could use that knowledge against you, once the moment of a stab has come.

So, what can you do? It's clear, you won't be able to change him, the only thing you might achieve is to get him simulating empathy. Is that what you really want? But you can change yourself, and have a look at different points of view and different styles of communication. Adaptation is the magic word, as well in life as in Diplomacy game. "Making the best out of the given circumstances", that is the real mastery.

Yours..
Jack007 (xxxx.) unbanned for dubious reasons
Member of the Honorables
There is no greater solitude than the samurai's,
unless it be that of the tiger in the jungle… perhaps…
-bushido
User avatar
Jack007
Premium Member
 
Posts: 967
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 17:34
Location: Liverpool (Macclesfield) ⛵ Instagram jack060856
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1410
All-game rating: 1685
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby MrMeme » 31 Jul 2016, 18:51

Eleusinian wrote:Did you try confronting them about it? I played a game once where I was forced to ally with someone I found very aggravating. Finally I had enough, and told them exactly what I didn't like and why. Within a couple messages we had sorted it out, and ended up on quite good terms.

For instance, what you find patronizing they might consider respectful straightforwardness. They might actually consider it patronizing if they thought "this is an inferior approach" but then dressed it up with "hmm I like it, but what about ____."

I'm very far from an expert, so take this with a lot of salt, but I think that learning how to navigate these different styles is a big aspect of the game.


You wouldn't be talking about a certain megalomaniac Austria would you? ;)

In my defense, some people can be blunt mainly because they don't want their messages interpreted in a way they didn't intend it to. It might be best to point it out that they're being a bit rude in their wordings.
Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness.
User avatar
MrMeme
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 16 Mar 2016, 23:03
Location: Lebanon
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1405)
All-game rating: (1416)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby GhostEcho » 31 Jul 2016, 20:20

In general, there's a policy not to discuss active games.

(Point 1 in the red box above: "1. When discussing strategy, reference should not be made to any active game. This section of the Forum is for general strategy discussion, not specific situations within games.")

I've asked about this before and for whatever reason this is not usually extended to off-site games, but since you've used the anonymous account, I'm guessing that's not the case here.

If you suspect actual abuse or cheating, you can contact the mods directly.
"When you absolutely don't know what to do any more, then it's time to panic." - Johann van der Wiel
"I'm not panicking, I'm watching you panic. It's more entertaining." - Elli Quinn
"[Diplomacy:] No dice or chance. Just calculated insincerity." - Counter Trap
User avatar
GhostEcho
 
Posts: 1839
Joined: 10 Aug 2008, 04:56
Location: Baltimore
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 995
All-game rating: 979
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby Zosimus » 31 Jul 2016, 21:25

I have some AARs in the forum in which I had to put up with some pretty bad allies to get where I wanted to go.

One must work with the allies one has, not with the allies one wishes one had.
Be more aggressive.
User avatar
Zosimus
 
Posts: 649
Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 22:17
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1696)
All-game rating: (1730)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Don't take it personally...?

Postby Octavious » 31 Jul 2016, 22:50

Dolph Shtoss wrote:I'm in a game where my ally is intolerable. I really don't like them. However, (s)he has proven to be tactically astute, and always makes the right call when proposing moves. Whenever I propose a move I am told I am wrong, which obviously I don't like, but I have to admit their way is always better. I also think I can trust them as an ally, not to stab me. It's just (s)he comes across as patronising. I also don't have any other option, because there is nobody else I can ally with, (don't want to give too much away, so please just take this as a given!)

I wonder what other players here would do? Stick with them, even though I'm not enjoying the game with them, or fly solo which I'm pretty sure will result in certain death. I've tried talking to other players, but I can't seem to break up their alliance(s).


Seems to me like your ally is playing a great game. She's got you convinced you're inferior, is dominating allied decision making, has somehow fooled you into thinking she's trustworthy, has great relations with the other players, and doesn't even have to bother pretending she likes you. As you seem certain that stabbing her means certain death it sounds like she's manoeuvred you into a weak position too.

At your current standard of play it won't matter one iota whether you stab her or not. She's got you beat either way. You need to play smarter. Spend more time community with the other players and putting real effort into building relationships. Spend more time thinking about possible allied strategy so you come across as an equal rather than a sidekick. Then, when you have proven yourself a strong player worthy of respect, you might actually start getting some and you might find yourself with a shot at getting a result.

At the end of the day it's mostly about sheer effort, and it sounds like she's simply putting more in than you.
Guaaaaaaak!
User avatar
Octavious
 
Posts: 122
Joined: 02 Aug 2012, 23:18
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1242)
All-game rating: (1251)
Timezone: GMT

Next

Return to Diplomacy Strategy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 2 guests