How to get yourself stabbed...

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Re: How to get yourself stabbed...

Postby suvin123 » 07 Dec 2018, 03:45

jay65536 wrote:
David E. Cohen wrote:If you put the seven best players on the planet in a game, it is quite likely that ALL of them will be stabbed.

I used to agree with this. Now I'm not so sure.

I own a book called Scarne's Encyclopedia of Card Games. The last chapter talks about card tricks and cheating. Scarne asserts that when you get together a table full of great card cheats, none of them cheat. I love his quote explaining why--and I believe it is applicable to the quoted statement about Diplomacy.

"They do not, because they dare not."

I think if you got together the 7 best Diplomacy players in the world on one board, you wouldn't see that many stabs--because great players don't make bad stabs, nor do they allow good stabs. I suspect most of the game would unfold fairly straightforwardly.

To get back to the original thread topic, one thing to take away from it is the reverse perspective. It's not just about that list being things you should avoid doing. The other angle is, if you are in a game where someone else is displaying these behaviors, and you are continuing to trust them, you are very likely making a mistake by doing so. I have already, in 4 games, played with my fair share of people who have done things like this and then either expected I wouldn't notice, or else acted indignant when I told them I considered them unreliable or refused to follow through on plans with them. I suspect the prevalence of that behavior means there are many other people on here who don't consider those things red flags and allow themselves to be stabbed later by players who exhibit these behaviors as a warning sign.

Totally agreed. I think a game with 7 greatest players would be the most boring game ever. Most likely it would end up in 6 or 5 way draw to prevent someone from soloing. Diversity is the most important factor for dip to be fun - even trolls.

For the post, I was expecting to see stabbing because of 'circumstances', rather than because of 'person'. But still, I see your point especially people being silent. I don't feel sorry for stabbing silent people because they look like bots, rather than a person.
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Re: How to get yourself stabbed...

Postby jay65536 » 07 Dec 2018, 16:10

suvin123 wrote:I think a game with 7 greatest players would be the most boring game ever. Most likely it would end up in 6 or 5 way draw to prevent someone from soloing.

If you assume that all 7 players care about the draw size--which you probably shouldn't--then I don't think that's true. Anything from a solo (with someone throwing it) to a 4way draw could happen.
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Re: How to get yourself stabbed...

Postby David E. Cohen » 07 Dec 2018, 21:56

In my experience, the best players in the world (I have played in several games with world email or world FTF champions together with other very good/elite players) do not shy away from stabs. Granted, this is anecdotal, not statistical evidence, but it is the evidence I have.

In order to excel, you need to be willing to risk it all. Going to pull out Teddy Roosevelt here:

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
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