The Bohemian crusher

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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby Redbird » 31 Dec 2008, 23:49

Samarkand wrote:Since the Pouch came out with the article in August everybody is crazy about it.



can I see a link to this
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby Diplomat » 01 Jan 2009, 00:41

http://www.diplom.org I believe and just navigate through to the pouch issues.
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby Snoopymate25 » 01 Jan 2009, 01:17

Redbird wrote:
Samarkand wrote:Since the Pouch came out with the article in August everybody is crazy about it.



can I see a link to this

Here it is. http://www.diplom.org/Zine/F2008M/Hunt/crusher.htm
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby General Byng » 05 Jan 2009, 18:21

This is the reason that I think Austria is nuts to make any move other than Tri-Ven in Spring 01. If it starts a war with Italy and denies you Greece, so be it. I would rather keep Vienna than gain Greece.

Funny that this idea is so 'new'. I have seen it more than a few times over the years in FtF games with good players who take advantage of an insufficiently paranoid Austria. But I guess there is fashion everywhere, even in the Diplomacy community.
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby Stander » 05 Jan 2009, 18:40

Having just recently read this article I tired it out in a live game two days ago. Worked a treat but only because everyone except Turkey seemed not to have read the article. The game ended up as a two way with Turkey.
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby Quizmike » 05 Jan 2009, 21:37

Has anyone played as Germany when this opening was played?

I can't believe that the Kaiser would be in the least bit pleased about it.
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby The Brigadier » 06 Jan 2009, 13:58

Yes, I am in a game at the moment where (I think) Italy tried this opening. He moved to Bohemia and Tyrolia and kept telling me he was after Austria. When he took Vienna and Trieste, France, Austria and I joined forces to whack him. The war is ongoing, but Italy is losing it swiftly.

It was a shock departure from the normal German interests of defending against France and England, and its main affect has been to distract me enough so that England has swiped Denmark. I'll get it back...
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby Minneapolitan » 05 Apr 2009, 04:57

Another thread coming back from the dead...

Equally important in this discussion is what to do when the opening goes badly.

As Italy, I just tried a Crusher opening with the purpose having the option of who to crush in 1902, rather that aiming for Austria right away. It didn't go well. Venice got bounced out of Tyrolia by Germany! Here's how Austria opened:

Trieste > Albania
Vienna > Trieste
Budapest > Serbia

Specific to this game, did Austria tip off Germany? I don't know yet, but it doesn't really matter.

The point here is what does Italy do in Fall of 1901 when the only unit that's moved is your fleet to the Ionian Sea? A bad position, indeed!

I have my ideas...what are your thoughts?
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby Cornelius » 05 Apr 2009, 07:12

Well, the move to Tyrolia screws over any chance of working with Austria or Germany, unless you play nice. Really it seems that the only move you can make is the fleet to Tun to ensure you get a build, and then move the armies to defend your borders (either Ven-Pie and Rom-Ven or Ven H and Rom-Apu). Then I'd try to get France on my side against Germany, cause if you have three hostile neighbors you won't last long. Maybe even try to work with Turkey against Austria, or Russia against both.
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Re: The Bohemian crusher

Postby Flatley » 05 Apr 2009, 07:41

Well, first, a little research on the parties in question. Germany is being played by a new entity; based on his opening, I'm skeptical as to how much experience he has, so it may not be a stab, per se. Gut check would be to compare Austria's moves to what they told you they would do.

Second is to assess the lay of the board. Germany can't do much to you alone, but Austria and Germany could be a bit of a hassle. However, with Russia opening three strong to the south, you might be able to make a play on Trieste. If Austria's still talking, see if you can't get a sense of which way he's going to jump. At the same time, I'd talk to the Russians and try to sell him the idea of telegraphing Austria's move to him. If you give him accurate info, you could claim Trieste (assuming Austria will make a play for Greece) while Russia grabs one of Budapest and Vienna.

Now comes the tricky part: which way do you want to play it? That, my friend, should depend on how likely you think it is that a Juggernaut is in play. The Turkish opening is somewhat hostile, but only somewhat, with Smy->Con instead of Arm. If you feel the need to counter the Jug with a Lepanto, then work with Austria to maximize the likelihood of keeping both (or at least don't stab him). If you think Turkey's anti-Russian moves are sincere, then try for Trieste, and give Russia the straight goods. If your gambit succeeds, Austria is sunk; in the face of the Juggernaut, and if England and Germany can't be talked into doing the right thing, you made victory that much tougher. If there's no Juggernaut, then you can play one of Turkey against Russia for a turn or two, then commit to whichever one will be easier to stab.

If your gambit fails, however, then Austria will be pissed. Should Germany come into Tyrolia again, then you're in for a rough game. If Germany stays back, then you'll have a temporary reprieve, and you can continue to work with Russia to take apart Austria. And, of course, if there's a Juggernaut, then it's not too late to change your tune and work with Austria against the greater threat.

What would I do, though? Given how much of the above depends on knowing what the board's doing, I'd opt to submit Ven->Tyr, Rom->Ven. It has the benefit of keeping Germany out of Tyr at worst. Ven-Tri is very tempting, but I'd need to be very sure of what's going on with the rest of the board before committing to that.
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