Deadlocked Game

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Deadlocked Game

Postby tobydog4 » 17 Dec 2018, 19:51

So I have some questions on the deadlocked game procedure. I'm currently in a game with 5 day deadlines and we're in a deadlock so my side is trying to follow the procedure. The problem is that in order to do this we needed to set up a stalemate line which involved giving supply centers to the enemy. We're at a point where we have assembled the stalemate line but still have supply centers outside of it and we need to wait 3 in game years before we meet all requirements. This is going to take 36 IRL days. Our side is OK with this, but we're still concerned that because our enemy knows the deadlocked procedure and doesn't want to draw he will wait until right before 3 years are up then take the supply center outside our line. This will restart the 3 years and effectively double our waiting time to 42 days. Is there any way to prevent this?
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby Zosimus » 17 Dec 2018, 21:17

Not that I'm aware of. In fact, if the other guy is obstinate, he may invoke the deadlocked game procedure right before the 3-year time frame is up. This will have the effect of postponing the time limit an additional 3 years (per the rules), then he'll grab up those outside supply centers, and then invoke the deadlocked game procedure right before the next 3-year time frame is up so as to further extend the deadlocked game time.

If he's really obstinate (and logs in a lot) he could flood you with constant two-way draw proposals. Remember that the deadlocked game procedure can't be invoked if there's an outstanding draw proposal.

There are flaws in the rules. Perhaps you could persuade someone to take a closer look at the rules and improve upon them.
Be more aggressive.
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 17 Dec 2018, 21:35

Not that I'm aware of. In fact, if the other guy is obstinate, he may invoke the deadlocked game procedure right before the 3-year time frame is up. This will have the effect of postponing the time limit an additional 3 years (per the rules), then he'll grab up those outside supply centers, and then invoke the deadlocked game procedure right before the next 3-year time frame is up so as to further extend the deadlocked game time.

If he's really obstinate (and logs in a lot) he could flood you with constant two-way draw proposals. Remember that the deadlocked game procedure can't be invoked if there's an outstanding draw proposal.

There are flaws in the rules. Perhaps you could persuade someone to take a closer look at the rules and improve upon them.


To be clear, for the sake of those reading this thread, the house rules of the site do give moderators some flexibility when it comes to edge cases. Deliberately trolling the deadlock procedure through the means Zosimus has described should not be assumed to be a 100% reliable method of preventing a deadlock.

Qualifying situations are rare, though, and any individual games would have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

I don't believe that a scenario in which one player declines to take an SC, then does so, would necessarily qualify as such trolling, however.
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 17 Dec 2018, 21:47

Specifically, the "flood the game with draw proposals" strategy is definitely something that doesn't work. Emphasis added:

B. Second Assessment.
After the deadline given in (A.2) above, the Mod will:
1. Review the game in light of any discussion between the Mod and any players from the game.
2. Check for live draw proposals.
If the Mod feels the game is NOT deadlocked as a result of (B.1), this will be posted in Public Press and the game will continue. The game cannot be referred again for another 3 years.
If a Live draw proposal is in place, the Mod will allow the game to proceed until THAT proposal has passed. This will be posted in Public Press. If the proposal is not accepted, no subsequent proposals will prevent the Mod ending the game.
If the Mod feels the game is still deadlocked, the game will be ended.

viewtopic.php?f=707&t=49117#p820531

Likewise, if a player contacts a mod to invoke the deadlock procedure in bad faith, where they know the conditions are not met, and they're just trying to prevent other players from invoking the procedure in the coming years, I would not assume that such an action will always work. That would certainly fall under the grey area, and it would be up to the mods to determine whether to recognize such action as preventing future deadlock requests.
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby super_dipsy » 17 Dec 2018, 21:53

Zosimus wrote: In fact, if the other guy is obstinate, he may invoke the deadlocked game procedure right before the 3-year time frame is up. This will have the effect of postponing the time limit an additional 3 years (per the rules)

No. The rules specify that in order to refer the game, the player has to verify (at least from what he/she can see) that the criteria have been met.
DGP wrote:Process for Referring a Deadlocked Game.
1. Referrals must be by Private Message only.
2. Players must provide the game name and number.
3. Players must show that EACH criterion above has been met.

In other words, if a player tries to refer the game without the criteria having been met at least from his or her point of view, it does noot count as a valid referral and hence there will be no 3-year block.

Zosimus wrote:If he's really obstinate (and logs in a lot) he could flood you with constant two-way draw proposals. Remember that the deadlocked game procedure can't be invoked if there's an outstanding draw proposal.

Again, you have misread the rules. They specifically state that one criteria is
DGP wrote:- at least 2 draw proposals including all surviving players, whether the game is set-up as a DIAS game or not, have been unsuccessful

So offering 2-way draw proposals doesn't cut it. And of course if the trouble maker himself offers a DIAS draw, he is automatically voting for it and the others would just accept.
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby Zosimus » 17 Dec 2018, 22:48

The rules say:

"If the criteria is(sic) not met the Mod will reply to the player who referred the game explaining why no action will be taken. The explanation will refer to only the criteria above. No reference will be made to content of messages. The game cannot be referred again for another three game years."

I seem to recall that on 10 November 2018, I purposely referred a game to you in which the criteria were not met. My purpose in doing so was to prevent other players from meeting the requirements and referring the game. The messages you sent to me indicated (at least to me) that my attempt had succeeded. Perhaps I misread your response. Care to elaborate?
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby Zosimus » 17 Dec 2018, 22:55

The rules say:

"3. There are no live draw proposals in place."

So if a person wants to invoke the deadlocked game procedure, he/she should decline all active draws and then refer.
Yet, if the obstinate person places another draw proposal as soon as the old one is rejected, it may be difficult to meet that "no live draw proposals" criterion.
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby tobydog4 » 18 Dec 2018, 02:37

SO I'll should probably just wait the three years then refer the game to the mods. Hopefully they'll be understanding and end the game.
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 18 Dec 2018, 05:06

Zosimus wrote:The rules say:

"3. There are no live draw proposals in place."

So if a person wants to invoke the deadlocked game procedure, he/she should decline all active draws and then refer.
Yet, if the obstinate person places another draw proposal as soon as the old one is rejected, it may be difficult to meet that "no live draw proposals" criterion.


Go back and read what I’d previously quoted. Particularly during the second assessment, only ONE current live draw proposal will delay the decision.
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Re: Deadlocked Game

Postby condude1 » 18 Dec 2018, 05:18

To be fair, in any case when a player has something to gain (apart from waiting for one of his opponents to die or NMR, which is just poor sportsmanship), the deadlock procedure shouldn't be activating in the first place. If it is, it's reasonable to circumvent it - the deadlock procedure is for games that are completely drawn, not a goal in and of itself.
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