Builds and destroys

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Builds and destroys

Postby PHM » 15 Mar 2014, 11:10

Hi,

During the build phase, If a country is left with the same number of supply centres as the previous year, is it possible to destroy one army/fleet and replace it with a new one in a home centre?
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby SuuteiTsai » 15 Mar 2014, 12:26

No
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby jonisilk » 15 Mar 2014, 14:23

I've wondered about this as well.

When playing face to face games before coming to this site, disbanding a redundant unit to build again at home was not considered unusual as we could not find anything in the rules prohibiting this, but I suppose it comes down to interpretation.
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby gareth66 » 15 Mar 2014, 16:12

jonisilk wrote:I've wondered about this as well.

When playing face to face games before coming to this site, disbanding a redundant unit to build again at home was not considered unusual as we could not find anything in the rules prohibiting this, but I suppose it comes down to interpretation.


That's not true actually. The rules governing the build phase are very clear: If at the end of the Fall moves you have more centres than units, you can place build orders. If you have fewer centres than units you have to place destroy orders (or units are destroyed for you). There is nothing in the rules that permits you to mix and match, to place build orders where you do not have more centres than units or destroy orders where you have more units than centres. So it is important to make it clear (in case anybody gets the wrong end of the stick here) that this is not in fact a matter of interpretation.
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby jonisilk » 15 Mar 2014, 18:10

I know I'm not the only person on this site to have played slightly different rules before I came to the site. In this case, the rules supplied with the board game my brothers and I had, did not specify that you could not do so (though neither did it say you could).

In the same set of rules I grew up playing, it also said that Fleets could Move, Convoy, & Support (not OR Support, so we played with Fleets that were able to convoy & support the unit they were convoying. Just as I know this now wrong, I hope you see my point about interpretation).

I'm not saying there was anything in the rules saying you could do it, I was saying that we couldn't find anything in the rules prohibiting it. If you could direct me to where it says that you can't, that would be appreciated.
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby jonisilk » 16 Mar 2014, 20:22

I've looked through the rules myself and not found anything prohibiting it.

I've also kept an eye on the thread, hoping that someone would be able to point out where it is prohibited and as yet there has been no response. As such, I do believe this qualifies as a matter of interpretation.

I would gladly accept evidence to the contrary, but until someone is able to provide it, it would seem that my point still stands.
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby gareth66 » 16 Mar 2014, 21:15

The reason no-one has posted further is that I've already answered this question for you. The rules say when you can build (more centres than units) and when you can destroy (more units than centres). They do not provide for any other unit adjustment. See page 17 of the Avalon Hill 2000 rules. (I'm sorry I tried to copy and paste the relevant extract for you but for some reason I couldn't do it).
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby jonisilk » 17 Mar 2014, 00:47

Yeah, those are the rules I've looked at and while I agree it doesn't say you can do it, I still maintain that it doesn't say you can't.

It's not a real issue, but I do think it's a rule that has an ambiguity about it.
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby gareth66 » 17 Mar 2014, 13:23

Ok, well probably not worth protracting this but it is worth saying that neither do the rules say you can't adjust units at the end of the Spring phase. Most people would regard that as implicit in the statement that you can adjust your units at the end of the Fall phase. The rules tend to define what you CAN do, not attempt to rule out every single thing that you CAN'T do.

I think the reality it that the rules are so complex that we've all grown up with some misunderstanding or other of what they are, and within your own little circle of friends those misunderstandings get turned in your own mind into something you get convinced the rules say. My own one was that I grew up believing that if a unit attacking another unit that is ordered to support is dislodged then it does not have the effect of cutting the support. It was only when I came on here that this childhood misunderstanding of mine was corrected. And I'm afraid this destroy/rebuild thing that you grew up with is another of those misunderstandings.
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Re: Builds and destroys

Postby Petunia » 20 Mar 2014, 02:28

jonisilk wrote:Yeah, those are the rules I've looked at and while I agree it doesn't say you can do it, I still maintain that it doesn't say you can't.

It's not a real issue, but I do think it's a rule that has an ambiguity about it.

Well. The rules don't say that you can't disband a fleet and build a banana, either. Is it in your mind ambiguous and open to interpretation whether or not a banana can be built in a winter adjustment phase? Keep in mind that a banana can move up to three spaces at once, fly over land & sea spaces alike, and attack with a force of ten onto any space it can physically touch (when I was young my friends and I would scour the school cafeteria's fruit basket for the largest bananas we could find as it was just possible to get from London to Sevastopol if you found a really honkin' big banana). The rules don't prohibit any of this type of action, you know.
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