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Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 02:01
by NoPunIn10Did
Clearly I’m not making any headway here, so I give up.

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 09:52
by Jack007
NoPunIn10Did wrote:Clearly I’m not making any headway here, so I give up.

Giving up is not an option. You may lose a battle, but not the war. Truth and freedom always win, eventually. 8-)

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 22:10
by gareth66
Why is this discussion in the “Rules Questions” forum? It is nothing to do with clarifying the Rules of Diplomacy. It is not even a question about playing Dip on the site. (For which the place to ask would be the Information forum and to which the answer is clear in the Site Rules).

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 01:14
by WHSeward
@Gareth: Forum moderators are slack.

Moving thread... :oops:

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 12:58
by joe92
The saga continues... :roll:

NoPunIn10Did's Undoctored Words.png
NoPunIn10Did's Undoctored Words.png (55.69 KiB) Viewed 1124 times

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 13:10
by joe92
I'm not for or against this proposal. Arguments are valid on both sides. But we really need to clear up how easy it is to make these fake images. NoPun makes it sound like a massive chore screenshotting certain lines and doctoring them all together into a forgery. That sounds hard, and it's not that hard.

It takes about 30 seconds and requires no knowledge of photoshop. You just right click on the bit of text you want to change, then change it in the HTML itself - double click on the element, edit the text, hit enter. Do an actual screenshot of that newly altered HTML, and wallah, you forged some text into an image. The above took me about 20 seconds in total.

Manipulating images.png
Manipulating images.png (66.83 KiB) Viewed 1124 times


I know it's dead in the water this and I'm not trying to give reasons for why it should be allowed. Just pointing out how incredibly easy it is. And that it is not "technical". This level of HTML understanding is a core subject for kids nowadays. It's as elementary as basic maths and grammar.

Again. Don't care either way and probably lean towards disallowing if pressed. One point that hasn't been discussed is the disadvantage that allowing screenshots would give to mobile phone players. There's quite a number of mobile players on the site as far as I understand. How they put up playing on their phones I don't know, but they would all be disadvantaged if screenshots were to be allowed. Doctoring an image on your phone is no easy feat and will indeed take away from what this game is about.

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 13:59
by asudevil
joe92 wrote:I know it's dead in the water this and I'm not trying to give reasons for why it should be allowed. Just pointing out how incredibly easy it is. And that it is not "technical". This level of HTML understanding is a core subject for kids nowadays. It's as elementary as basic maths and grammar.


Great...core understanding for kids...not really our demographic. And is it just as easy to move pieces around on a screenshot of a map?

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 14:25
by joe92
asudevil wrote:
joe92 wrote:I know it's dead in the water this and I'm not trying to give reasons for why it should be allowed. Just pointing out how incredibly easy it is. And that it is not "technical". This level of HTML understanding is a core subject for kids nowadays. It's as elementary as basic maths and grammar.


Great...core understanding for kids...not really our demographic. And is it just as easy to move pieces around on a screenshot of a map?

The point about kids is just to emphasise how easy it is, and that with an exceptionally low level of effort and understanding anyone could edit the text on a page.

Moving units around, no, that would not be so easy. But that would only be a necessary skill if allowing in fog games etc., and as far as I know nobody is suggesting to allow them in those kinds of games but only in standard dip games.

Anyway, just let me reiterate the point that I'm not fussed whichever way this goes. It looks like it's not going to be allowed and I'm perfectly happy with that.

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 15:21
by asudevil
joe92 wrote:
asudevil wrote:
joe92 wrote:I know it's dead in the water this and I'm not trying to give reasons for why it should be allowed. Just pointing out how incredibly easy it is. And that it is not "technical". This level of HTML understanding is a core subject for kids nowadays. It's as elementary as basic maths and grammar.


Great...core understanding for kids...not really our demographic. And is it just as easy to move pieces around on a screenshot of a map?

The point about kids is just to emphasise how easy it is, and that with an exceptionally low level of effort and understanding anyone could edit the text on a page.

Moving units around, no, that would not be so easy. But that would only be a necessary skill if allowing in fog games etc., and as far as I know nobody is suggesting to allow them in those kinds of games but only in standard dip games.

Anyway, just let me reiterate the point that I'm not fussed whichever way this goes. It looks like it's not going to be allowed and I'm perfectly happy with that.


Actually FoW games is the number one reason any of this would be useful...and is the reason it came up

Re: Time for a Rules Change

PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 15:25
by joe92
asudevil wrote:Actually FoW games is the number one reason any of this would be useful...and is the reason it came up

Really? Well for that I'd be completely against. It defeats the entire point of fog!