Page 3 of 3

Re: Mentoring & fair play

PostPosted: 21 Dec 2019, 17:32
by Mr Aedron
Thanks for all of your inputs guys.

Here is what I'll offer the mentor:
1/ I play my games normally, without the mentor knowledge or input
2/ I keep journals
3/ I review the games & journals with the mentor

Besides the fact that I'll obviously dust Conq in no time ( :twisted: tremble all you mere mortals. Or not :twisted: ), I believe that this cannot be called an edge in any way.

Should anyone think that this is cheating, speak now or forever hold your peace!

Mr Aedron

Re: Mentoring & fair play

PostPosted: 30 Dec 2019, 01:22
by WarSmith
This is fine.
I followed the discussion about asking for feedback during an active game with interest as that would’ve been cheating. However how you summarize here is okay. Feel free to PM me with any concerns about where the line is.
Keeping journals is interesting - I would advise against keeping any personal information you may gleam from players in any kind of file though, I’m no expert but hear GDPR is a minefield.

Re: Mentoring & fair play

PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 21:45
by Malarky
I think the site has the balance perfectly set for this.

Why are unranked games included with ranked game for this type of thing? Originally they weren't but it makes sense that they should be. Some people will only play unranked games, for whatever reason (for instance, they don't like the way scoring alters play, or they only want to play for fun); why should they be faced with unfair play? Just because a game isn't scored doesn't mean it shouldn't be a free-for-anything-you-want scenario. And this was before Friends and Schools games came along.

Of course, Friends games should also be competitive - and so should Schools games! - but these have been designed for very specific scenarios. That's why, for instance, in a Friends game a player can leave and come back. They're played for fun between friends, whether in real life or not. Schools games are slightly different. If they're a genuine school-based game then the teacher is probably using Dip to teach something other than how to play the game. In this, however, Dip is being used as a model for other situations, such as negotiation skills.

Once a game is over, anything goes as far as discussing strategy and tactics are concerned. You may even find some people who would be happy to explain why they did something specific and show their underlying playing strategy, which is probably more than explaining the strategy they had for making certain choices in the game, which is usually what AARs are about (aside from celebrating successes and mourning failures, even mocking - in a friendly way, I'm sure - the pathetic losers... oops, sorry ;) ).

I think it might be nice to have some other level to Mentor games, though, whereby they weren't so much Dip 101 as ... well, I'm not from the US so I don't know what the term is for non-elementary study, but for more advanced play. So, now you know what you're doing, here's the more in-depth stuff. Then again, there's the Strategy forum, I suppose.

I also think that, while some players may understand the patterns, subtleties and complexities of play, and while some may be genuine experts (rather than just analysts, like myself), a lot of good play in Dip is about attitude, empathy, persistence and resilience. It's easy to get turned-off Dip because it takes time and effort, and with the online game there are a lot of people playing who don't put the time in to try and understand it. Sure, some things are teachable... some things are natural. Just like so much else, I guess.

Perhaps a lot more will be learned by playing and reflecting on what happened in a game than in simply playing with the good players. Yes, of course, you'll learn a lot from playing against good players but you won't learn how to not be gullible or how to be more persuasive. And some things are counter-intuitive: for instance, if you spend a lot of time going into great strategic depth, studies have shown that this may well make you less attractive to ally with! :o

Which is probably my cue to STFU :)

Re: Mentoring & fair play

PostPosted: 02 Feb 2020, 13:51
by WarSmith
Just to underline one thing you write there Mr E - I still take down cheaters even if they don’t enter ranked games. Ranked or unranked our rules on multi accounting and Metagaming are clear and we have the tools to find the cheats.