Substitutes - taking over and how to leave?

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Re: Substitutes - taking over and how to leave?

Postby Pope Pius IX » 25 Feb 2020, 22:26

I've only read the part of the glossary quoted on this thread, but theoretically, how could you be certain you aren't already involved in a game with a player you're subbing for, if some games are anonymous?
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Re: Substitutes - taking over and how to leave?

Postby smartiperson » 26 Feb 2020, 00:39

I agree that this subject generates more questions:

- can you sub for the same player in more than 1 game?

- can someone who’s been subbed in one game then sub the other player in another game (not sure why you’d want to do that, but maybe it could happen, if the players wanted to ‘swap’ positions to try out alternative tactics, etc)
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Re: Substitutes - taking over and how to leave?

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 26 Feb 2020, 16:16

I suspect that rule may need to be updated. It's certainly advisable to have caution before subbing in for someone who is an opponent of yours in another game, but that responsibility is ultimately on the shoulders of the player being replaced, not the player who replaces.

What say the rest of you? What if we changed it to this:

substitute - a player taking over a power for a portion of the game at the request and for the benefit of the original player. Players may only substitute for one power in any given game. Players should use extreme caution before asking another player to act as a substitute when they share another current or pending game, as this can potentially be interpreted as evidence of metagaming. Except for NMRs the substitute incurs, all results of the game for Rating and Player Class purposes are applied to the original player, not the substitute.
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Re: Substitutes - taking over and how to leave?

Postby smartiperson » 27 Feb 2020, 00:08

I’ve just thought of another potential related problem. Having just decided to join some more games, I suddenly got concerned that I might join another game (either as a replacement in an existing match or new) which contains the subbed player. Then suddenly I would find myself in breach of this rule, admittedly retrospectively. So I feel I need to be much more careful to study the player lists before joining an existing game.

Of course, I can’t do anything about signing up for a new game and then the subbed player joining up after me. Or even him joining as different replacement player in an existing game after I do.

I guess I might be over-thinking this subject, as its probably a pretty rare set of circumstances that would lead to being in multiple games with a subbed player, who is more likely to have needed to quit completely causing the need to request to be subbed. Still, it does make you realise how complicated life can get if you accept a substitute request, and are playing or plan to play in several games.
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Re: Substitutes - taking over and how to leave?

Postby Shyvve » 27 Feb 2020, 16:30

Offsetting this somewhat is the fact that a player who has had someone sub in for them in a game, is prevented from joining any other games as long as he has a sub playing for him in another game.

It is indeed a rare set of circumstances as evidenced by the good bit of digging around some of us have done trying to suss out the solution!

Barring some type of 'coding fix' wherein the player naming a substitute couldn't input the name of a player he currently has an active or pending game with, I would think the onus is really on the player requesting the sub to make sure the player he's asking to sub isn't in an active or pending game with him. That does nothing to solve the issue of the potential sub being in an Anon Players game with the requesting player though. But even then, since there would be no way either play could KNOW this, then I think this rule wouldn't have force.

I think if both players, the requester and the potential sub, checked their games beforehand to make sure they didn't share any (as far as they CAN know), then both should be good as far as this rule.
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Re: Substitutes - taking over and how to leave?

Postby smartiperson » 27 Feb 2020, 19:36

That's really useful that someone can't join any other games while they have a sub, I didn't know that.

Regarding my own difficulty, that's been solved now as the subbed player has indeed auto-exited from my other game. It turns out he was trying to get someone else to sub him from that other game, so I guess he was aiming to rectify the situation before having to leave for awhile. Better that than just resigning.

I was keen to avoid breaking any site rules, so I guess some form of adjustment to prevent people requesting and/or becoming subs when they're already in a game with that person would be helpful. I must admit I don't normally bother to check out all the other player names I'm playing against, so I'll be more careful in future.

I don't think its an issue with Anon players, since if no-one knows (not even the sub or rubber) then I can't see it would make any difference to anyone.
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