AAR - DIAS

This variant set on a Milan Map. Each player has a Major Power and a minor Power that allow them to bend the standard rules. This variant also includes a communal power. GM'ed by Stalin813

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AAR - DIAS

Postby stalin813 » 13 Oct 2017, 01:13

This game has been called as DIAS (Austria, Germany, Italy, Turkey)

Thank you all for playing and I'll try to post the bids and stats this weekend.

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"Added Later": As to Asudevil's argument about the game. I F'd up. I know it and once I was in it there was really no way to get out of it. Some of my best memories from Diplomacy were playing and GMing this variant. When I decided to return to dip after a few years off, this was the only game I really wanted to be apart of. I can't more truly apologize for ruining your experience. I tried my best to keep the game moving (even if it was slow at times) and stay on top of things. It wasn't from lack of caring, life just doesn't always go the way you want. Finally, I didn't send out the link to the players until today, because I wanted to add my comments before doing that. Everyone is entirely justified to their thoughts and opinions and be assured, I will never GM another game on this site again because I am not putting another group through this. I know this apology doesn't take back your frustrations, but it is all I can offer.
Last edited by stalin813 on 15 Oct 2017, 02:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby asudevil » 13 Oct 2017, 02:18

I still firmly hate the GM decision and basically stopped caring after that.

His rules clearly stated what should happen in the EXACT situation that came up and then he went against his OWN rules. This game is a mess with the rules being followed, but a GM who just changes his own rules on the fly...was inexcusable.

And yes, Im still salty
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby I Love Italy » 13 Oct 2017, 02:52

Marking. Will post an AAR soon.
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby asudevil » 13 Oct 2017, 22:58

I think this AAR tells you everything you need to know about the game. It wasn't even PM'd out to the roster (that's the GM's fault)...and no one has cared enough to find it on their own (players lack of caring)...this game ended as a shit show due to someone going missing (it happens)...but there was very little emotional investment in this game (lots of pauses)...and it's probably the worst of the VR games (in my opinion)
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby StarWatcher009 » 14 Oct 2017, 01:30

asudevil wrote:I still firmly hate the GM decision and basically stopped caring after that.

His rules clearly stated what should happen in the EXACT situation that came up and then he went against his OWN rules. This game is a mess with the rules being followed, but a GM who just changes his own rules on the fly...was inexcusable.

And yes, Im still salty


What happened, can I ask?
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby asudevil » 14 Oct 2017, 08:23

StarWatcher009 wrote:
asudevil wrote:I still firmly hate the GM decision and basically stopped caring after that.

His rules clearly stated what should happen in the EXACT situation that came up and then he went against his OWN rules. This game is a mess with the rules being followed, but a GM who just changes his own rules on the fly...was inexcusable.

And yes, Im still salty


What happened, can I ask?


He gave a private answer to a player...which when challenged publicly he changed his mind...but then didn't let us use the new ruling until the following year since the player who had the private ruling had made spring moves assuming his interpretation was correct.

But the rules clearly state that if you get a private ruling ... it may be overturned if brought up publicly and are proven that the original ruling was incorrect.

So basically you can keep the element of surprise ... BUT at the risk of it being overturned when others question/challenge the same interaction of units/powers.

OR, you bring up the clarification in public...lose the element of surprise, but then there is no misunderstanding.

BUT, that's not what happened...so I was forbidden from using a power in a way to benefit me...going against the stated rules, and giving the original player both the advantage of surprise AND the misinterpretation...

So I stopped caring. It isn't the reason I lost...They had an ironclad alliance and I was on the outs...but it didn't help.
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby GPD » 14 Oct 2017, 09:43

Hey, I thought this was a good game, and enjoyed it. Thanks to Stalin for putting the effort in to run it. And Epicdim for second eyes. My first game of VR, and I felt like I learned a lot, thanks in particular to Morg, Asu and Attitudes.

Got a bit scrappy towards the end, as I was expecting from the advice I was getting. The three way thing between me and Attitudes and Morg was disrupted by Morg's departure, which left the game unbalanced for me, and I ended up trying a few things out (sorry Gooderian! Nothing personal). I was always hoping to have the choice of going with Attitudes or Morg at the end, but Germany was too big when Austria went into CD. I should have worked closely with Turkey at that point but I blew it by messing him about. But I feel if I play this again I will have a better handle on it.
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby attitudes » 14 Oct 2017, 10:16

This is the House Rule in question:

House Rules wrote:I will answer any questions we haven't figured out privately if asked privately, but those decisions are not binding. If the situation comes up in game, I will allow for the players to express their opinion and will listen to their opinion before making a final call.


At one point, I asked the GM whether or not I could Hawk an Austrian unit and use his Ornithoper power. His response was:

stalin813 wrote:Because guild specifically specifies that in the rule, but ornithoper does not. I see your point, but I view it differently. If we want to make a permanent change to the rules going forward to VR 6, I believe this is a good AAR discussion.


It wasn't but a season later that ASU asked the exact same question and got a completely different answer. Somehow, within days, it was okay for Hawk and Evil Eye to use the Ornithoper power.

That's when the GM said:

stalin813 wrote:I'll be honest, I had forgotten that I had ruled to attitudes on the ornithoper question. In fairness to the game, turns have passed since I told him this and it could have impacted play. While I agree this should change in the rules for next game, I think the only thing to do is revert to my original ruling that guild and ornithoper are different.


ASU, citing house rules, wasn't convinced and eventually the GM caved. And ASU said this:

asudevil wrote:So...we are going with...EE/Hawk can ornithopter a unit...but that decision isn't COMPLETELY binding...?...in case Morg has a huge issue...and a really good reason why it wouldn't be (which I currently can't see)


At that point, the GM announces the change in rule interpretation without allowing the players (other than myself and ASU) to express themselves and listen to their opinions as per the House Rules. Turns out, Morg did have a huge issue with it. All Morg wanted was the rule change to take effect in a Spring season (it was currently a Fall season). Had this been the interpretation from the beginning (as it should have been), no way in Hades does Morg leave an army in Vienna for the Fall season for either ASU or myself to use as they see fit.

It went south from there.
Last edited by attitudes on 14 Oct 2017, 11:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby attitudes » 14 Oct 2017, 10:35

GPD, you played great. I'd love for the chance to play another game with you. The rest of you, you already know I love the challenge of playing against you. Fun as always.

For those who may be wondering why the game ended when it did, I live in Sonoma County California. Wildfires have burned almost 100,000 acres, destroyed over 2000 homes, and thousands have been evacuated from their homes. I have co-workers, friends, and cousins who have lost everything they own but the pajamas on their back. I am up late for the fifth night in a row making sure the winds don't take a sudden turn and force my own evacuation.

This game couldn't take another delay, NMR, or CD and unfortunately, that would have had to happen. It was best just to end the game.
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Re: AAR - DIAS

Postby asudevil » 14 Oct 2017, 14:19

attitudes wrote:This is the House Rule in question:

House Rules wrote:I will answer any questions we haven't figured out privately if asked privately, but those decisions are not binding. If the situation comes up in game, I will allow for the players to express their opinion and will listen to their opinion before making a final call.




And his original ruling was "binding" despite realizing it was wrong the very next season, and should be been overturned as soon as he realized his ruling was wrong...since his original private interpretation ... isn't binding...but he allowed the misunderstanding to stand...which never should have happened.

And it went south from there.
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