Draw proposals

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Draw proposals

Postby BlunderCity » 27 Mar 2017, 06:11

Hey there,

Totally new to the site (currently playing my first games) so I was wondering if you could enlighten me on draw proposals. I did a bit searching but can't seem to be sure about the answer. I'm currently playing a game where an "open ballot draw" has been offered by Austria to England and myself (France). Germany has been eliminated and Italy has surrendered. The draw has been accepted by all players left in the game (Austria, England, Russia and Turkey).

Just to clarify, the status menu is red and reads:
Draw proposal for: FRANCE, ENGLAND
Proposed by: AUSTRIA (Spring 1907 Orders)

And again I'm the last one to vote on it. All powers have accepted it apart from a defeated power (Germany) and a surrendered player (Italy).

What exactly does it mean? That Austria, England and myself will share a draw while other powers will lose? If that's the case, under which circumstances would a losing power accept a draw they are not a part of? Is there anything they have to gain from it? Aside perhaps from ending a game where they have no hope of winning? Does the game end as soon as everyone has accepted the offer?

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Re: Draw proposals

Postby condude1 » 27 Mar 2017, 06:51

You're actually not correct with your interpretation of that message. If you accept, you and England will share a victory (2-way draw). Austria proposed a draw that doesn't include him.

As for why someone would accept a draw they're not part of, it's like resigning in chess. If you're hopelessly doomed, it can be better just to end the suffering and get on with other games.

Edit: The difference between open ballot draws and secret ballot is exactly like it sounds. In a secret ballot, you aren't informed of who voted. This means that if you're an ambitious soloist, you can propose a draw and then black ball it, but claim that you accepted it.
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Re: Draw proposals

Postby WHSeward » 27 Mar 2017, 07:24

And to answer the one question condude1 missed, yes, the game ends as soon as all the surviving players vote in favor a draw.
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Re: Draw proposals

Postby BlunderCity » 27 Mar 2017, 09:22

Oh thanks a lot of these clarifications! I have accepted the draw and it felt a bit nuclear as the map suddenly disappeared and found myself with a blank page. I see that after this brief disappearance, the game is now in "after-game chat" mode. Interesting.

I was wondering if Austria was included in the draw because his country did not appear in the "Draw proposal for" line. And while his situation was bad, it was far from hopeless. I was playing France on 12 centers, England was my ally on 9 centers and austria was on 8. He stood to lose 2 and gain 1 in the current year. I stood to gain 1 and England also stood to gain 1. So a hypothetical 13, 10 and 8 for France, England and Austria respectively. Already not a desperate situation.

But the dynamics of the game is what made this draw offer even more surprising. A back stab by England looked imminent and I was totally unprepared for it. No immediate center loss but completely on the back foot and that would have forced me to call off my attacks on Austria (beyond the one center I was threatening and that was doomed). Certainly, the future was looking rosier for Austria. Alone and facing a France/England coalition, he stood no chance but that was likely to be over. The draw was offered in the spring and a fleet build by England (Lon) would have tipped him off and signaled a back stab.

Does this draw proposal, which, if I understand properly is a surrender to two players, make any sense to you? Could it be that Austria did not read England's build as a potential back stab and gave up hope? I find rather odd that Austria would initiate this proposal.

In any case, I thank you again for the clarifications. I needed to make sure I understood what was on offer and if any decisions by other players to accept a draw could be reversed.

Also, I think I alluded to it in my original message but your answers on one particular point only gave me part of the picture. Given that all powers but France and England lost in a drawn match, does this affect the losers of the game in any way? I see that the site has a rating system, which looks like chess-style Elo ratings. Are the ratings of the losing powers affected in different ways if they lose to a 2-way rather than a solo?

Oh and sorry to bombard you guys with 1000 questions but how would players go about agreeing on a 2 or 3 way draw, ie agreeing to take on all remaining powers together and share the win? I imagine one would initiate a proposal and all involved would then vote. But would all parties sharing the draw know if their allies really did in fact vote for the proposal? I'm not entirely sure how much information I, or any of the allies, would get in that situation. When the vote is a secret ballot, does it mean that the proposal is hidden from the non-participants in the draw or does it mean the player voting on it do not know how their allies voted?

It's all a bit confusing now but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it eventually.
:roll:
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Re: Draw proposals

Postby super_dipsy » 27 Mar 2017, 13:36

When people offer a draw, in pricniple it means they want to get out of the game and not play it on to its conclusion. There may be many reasons for this. They may have just had enough of the game, or they may feel that an honours even result is a 'fair' one. Sometimes you offer a draw to try to force someone's hand - if a number of powers are in an alliance, someone else might offer a draw between those powers; if they are REALLY joined at the hip they might accept it (ending the game, so you don't offer it if you aren't expecting to lose) but if one or more of the 'allies' secretly hopes to get a solo out of it, then it puts them in a difficult position.

You ask about ratings. You are right we have an ELO-style rating system similar to Chess. But as far as we are concerned, a loss is a loss. If you end the game as a solo winner, you get a win. If the game ended in a draw, only those countries that were in the draw get anything and everyone else (surrendered, defeated, left out of the draw) get a loss (sometimes called a full loss).

As for players agreeing to a draw, if it is Open Ballot you can see what they vote. In a secret ballot, you can't. So in an Open Ballot you can test the strength of the alliance, but in a secret one you do not know who killed the draw proposal. And for a draw prposal to be enacted it equires Approval from all remaining powers (not eliminated and not surrendered).
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Re: Draw proposals

Postby BlunderCity » 02 Apr 2017, 02:51

OK. Thanks for these clarifications.
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