Press to simulate in-person games

Suggestions on improving the site or comments in general?

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby Gavrilo Princip » 15 Nov 2017, 06:17

Don Juan of Austria wrote:
We may see a rising in the Star-Ambassdors. So long as they don't surrender still. ;)


Joking aside, that's a good point that I didn't even think of. It would likely cause an inflation in that algorithm, too. Another mark *against,* IMO. :)
~Gavrilo Princip
Silver Classicist
User avatar
Gavrilo Princip
Premium Member
 
Posts: 726
Joined: 29 May 2014, 08:09
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1191
All-game rating: 1246
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby diploguy » 15 Nov 2017, 06:58

Yeah upon further review I don't think it would work as intended. I think it would usually result in everyone messaging everyone so as to disguise intentions. Besides I always assume my allies are talking with our current enemies. It would just create more work in-order to not make it obvious.
diploguy
Premium Member
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 07 Nov 2011, 03:45
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: 1165
All-game rating: 1262
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby condude1 » 15 Nov 2017, 07:31

diploguy wrote:Yeah upon further review I don't think it would work as intended. I think it would usually result in everyone messaging everyone so as to disguise intentions. Besides I always assume my allies are talking with our current enemies. It would just create more work in-order to not make it obvious.


I mean, it's completely foolhardy to tell someone you're not talking to anyone else. Seriously, all half-decent (non-cheating) players are in contact with more than 1 other person. If someone confesses that they're talking to/talked to other people in the same theatre, my answer is always "Well, duhhhhh." (ok, maybe slightly more eloquent).

I'd work harder to ally with someone that is keeping up good comms with me and has a large number of messages to other players than someone who has only sent out a few. Try to convert 'em.
Telleo wrote:I don't think I've ever met someone who more perfectly embodied Chaotic Neutral than Condude1.



Silver member of The Classicists!
User avatar
condude1
 
Posts: 6370
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 03:41
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1368)
All-game rating: (1307)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby super_dipsy » 15 Nov 2017, 08:07

Interesting idea. However, let me throw in our experience with Stuff games. For those who do not play Stuff, there is a possibility of the odd message getting into the wrong hands :shock: . It only took a month or two before people playing stuff had changed their messaging approach. Instead of continually replying to the same thread, making a longer and longer exchange which if intercepted could give away a lot of information, people started to send brief individual messages. Then if it is caught, you only give away a tiny bit of information. It also led to some people being very choosy about words, so they would refer to 'what we talked about before' or 'plan B'.

I wonder if the same sort of thing would happen with this variant. I am struggling to see why any player would want others to know who they are talking to. It seems to me it could be pretty bad news for you. If a way were introduced to try to show it up by tracking messages, surely players would deliberately mess it up by sending frequent messages to all to avoid being exposed? Or is that too devious? Perhaps people wouldn't bother?

Anyway, if we did do this, one other thing that might be worth considering is not exposing timezones. If you wanted a grid of message counts, I would suggest it is only updated once a day or something to conceal people's timezones.
User avatar
super_dipsy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10892
Joined: 04 Nov 2009, 17:43
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (956)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby Don Juan of Austria » 15 Nov 2017, 09:04

diploguy wrote:If you've ever played Diplomacy in-person you know one of the ways that makes it significantly different than on-line play is you know which nations are talking to each other. For those that want a more in-person experience I wonder if we can consider adding this variant. I'm thinking the implementation would be Public Press would announce who sent a message to who. But without the content of said messages of course.



If the intention is to simulate FTF, then yes we should see who gets what mail and from whom, BUT! I've never given a blank message to someone in a FTF game, or spammed them with little leaflets. The expression on their face could easily give away what I'm doing, unless their Mr.PokerFace themselves! For that matter, I've very rarely ever taken someone into another room to just speak garbage and let others know I'm talking to him.
I wouldn't really, because everything is happening in real time. Online, we have more time to speculate, worry, wonder, and gossip... And check how much people are writing other people. ;)
"In everything, moderation". ~Aristotle
A proud member of the Whippersnappers,
Bronze Classicists,
and Lancer in the PBF cavalry.


Italy in ModEx 2,
Hojo Ujimasu in Sengoku,
The Victorious Inland Over-Land Expeditionary Team, in Great Expeditions!
User avatar
Don Juan of Austria
 
Posts: 730
Joined: 19 Feb 2014, 11:50
Location: South Africa, though given to travel
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1064
All-game rating: 1078
Timezone: GMT

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby Don Juan of Austria » 15 Nov 2017, 09:17

Oh, another thing is....well, here's a scenario:

Tommy the Turk is strong arming Aubrie of Austria to attack Russia with him, while asking Robert of Russia to go juggernaut with him.
Tommy then writes Iban of Italy to hit Austria while he and Robert swoop in destroy Aubrie's front and the Balkans.
Tommy the Turk spams Robert of Russia with exactly 15 messages, and then tries to use that as proof to Iban that an agreement has been reached. Robert however, leaves Tommy in the lurch, and for whatever reason, refuses to reply.

The Graph can tell no lies. The western powers even notice the tension between Tommy and Robert, as Robert replies to others, but not poor Tommy.

So what I'm basically saying is, you can spam people all you want, and try and pass it off as a great relationship to others, but it can easily work against you too.
"In everything, moderation". ~Aristotle
A proud member of the Whippersnappers,
Bronze Classicists,
and Lancer in the PBF cavalry.


Italy in ModEx 2,
Hojo Ujimasu in Sengoku,
The Victorious Inland Over-Land Expeditionary Team, in Great Expeditions!
User avatar
Don Juan of Austria
 
Posts: 730
Joined: 19 Feb 2014, 11:50
Location: South Africa, though given to travel
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1064
All-game rating: 1078
Timezone: GMT

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby StarkAdder » 15 Nov 2017, 15:26

I agree with Gavrilo that it might be easy to fool this system by sending a lot of fake messages (or talking football) but one thing I like about it....in some games I've played, a player or two seems to think they are playing Gunboat and either talk to no one or talk with only one other player.

A feature like this would either expose those players (making them more vulnerable to coordinated action) or discourage the silent-strategists from joining the Grid Games. As someone who likes games with a lot of communication, either way is a win for me.
User avatar
StarkAdder
Premium Member
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 26 Feb 2014, 12:53
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1280
All-game rating: 1189
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby Alman » 15 Nov 2017, 17:33

"No system is fool-proof because fools are so ingenious."

Any feature like this will have a downside. Protected games are great except when Dante and Virgil are playing with you, for instance. This as a variant feature would have the most value (like Protected Games) in a game with quality players. It would be a fun tool for those who would like to simulate more of the live game experience by adding the additional information. My guess is that it would be particularly effective with shorter deadline games (Don Juan mentioned how time availability changes messaging), and Classicist games.
As a Star Ambassador, I tend to write to everyone, but obviously the message frequency between allies will tend to be higher and for many of us "good" players (in approach if not in quality :? ) aren't going to be interested in spamming nor have the time to send a flurry of useless messages. In some Classicist games, I can barely keep up with the comms as it is (a GREAT problem to have, by the way).
In short, I think this is a great idea as a Variant feature. Like "Stuff" and "FoW", it is a special feature that could be very fun and useful in its way. Like protected games, in the hands of fools, it would become useless, but that's the fun of fools!
Bronze Member: The Classicists & Oldies
Turkey in "Blitzkrieg" PbF

"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
"Nothing has to be true, but everything has to sound like it was." -Salvor Hardin
User avatar
Alman
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1921
Joined: 04 Feb 2014, 22:04
Location: Beautiful Maine, USA
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1459
All-game rating: 1581
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Press to simulate in-person games

Postby Cliff Dancer » 15 Nov 2017, 23:35

I like the idea, and whatever count/graph/measure is chosen, Dippers will definitely find a way to con the system. Anyway, for an added layer of complexity, the graph could show both (1) time inside the message cue writing up your message, and (2) number of words sent. So if you are spamming and just copy/paste, it will show this on the timer. It would also show on the recipient's end that he opened your messages, but only briefly viewed them.

And as an aside, knowing this information would only help fuel paranoia, which is an added benefit :twisted: :twisted:
Cliff Dancer
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 04 Aug 2016, 05:24
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: 1257
All-game rating: 1271
Timezone: GMT

Previous

Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests