Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Suggestions on improving the site or comments in general?

How should the arrows appear for support-to-move?

As-is
3
33%
Invert the arrowhead connecting the moving unit and the supporting unit
2
22%
Replace the current arrows with something else entirely
4
44%
 
Total votes : 9

Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 15 Nov 2017, 16:02

super_dipsy wrote:
NoPunIn10Did wrote:Here's how the most recent rulebook pictures support-to-move.

Gosh. Am I the only one who finds these confusing? ;)

If I have it right, a move is a straight arrow if it is not supported. If a move IS supported, then the move itself becomes a curve rather than a straight line, with the supporting line also curved to join the curved moving line. it looks like the curve is bent towards the unit supporting it, so that the supporting line curves in and sort of joins it. Do you have an example of when there is a supporter somewhere else? For example, in the last picture, if there was another unit in Con supporting the move from Rum to Bul, what would it look like? I can't immediately see how the support line from Con to the Rum to Bul line would be drawn?


To be clear, I showed the rulebook as an example of how the support order can be shown to connect to the move order. My actual suggestion is either the three-segment model posted previously or the use of a Bézier curve.
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Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby super_dipsy » 15 Nov 2017, 21:48

NoPunin10Did wrote:My actual suggestion is either the three-segment model posted previously or the use of a Bézier curve.

OK, got it. Personally I prefer both of those to turning the arrow head around.

I am interested in these curves particularly since they seem to be used elsewhere. Would it be possible to help me get my head straight on them though? If we took the example I raised in my last post, eg when you have support for Rum to Bul from both Serbia and Con, what does it look like?

It may be your ingenious three stage thing would be easier, although I worry a little that it might be tricky to understand in some of the smaller areas on the map where there is little enough room for an arrow and by having an arrow that splits half way we would exacerbate the lack of space.
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Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 15 Nov 2017, 23:48

super_dipsy wrote:
NoPunin10Did wrote:My actual suggestion is either the three-segment model posted previously or the use of a Bézier curve.

OK, got it. Personally I prefer both of those to turning the arrow head around.

I am interested in these curves particularly since they seem to be used elsewhere. Would it be possible to help me get my head straight on them though? If we took the example I raised in my last post, eg when you have support for Rum to Bul from both Serbia and Con, what does it look like?

It may be your ingenious three stage thing would be easier, although I worry a little that it might be tricky to understand in some of the smaller areas on the map where there is little enough room for an arrow and by having an arrow that splits half way we would exacerbate the lack of space.


Backstabbr and Bezier Curves

Try playing around on Backstabbr for a bit to get an interactive example. They have a Sandbox mode that lets you mess with the interface without starting a real game, and you can share sandboxes (like this one). Their bezier curves for support-to-move terminate in little hollow circles so that they can be seen under the arrow.

Bezier curves have four components:
  1. A starting coordinate
  2. A terminal coordinate
  3. A starting vector (which provides a direction and magnitude)
  4. A terminal vector

They've got the coordinates and the directions of the vectors set up in exactly that same way that I'd suggest for this site. However, the magnitudes of the vectors are tweak-able (they determine the tightness of the bend in the curve).

Another Take
The following is closer to how I draw the arrows for PBEM and PBF games. I normally use black arrows with gray curves for support, but I've changed the colors to use something closer to your red/green scheme.

Support-to-Move Bezier Curves (no move arrow shown)
Image

Support-to-Move Bezier Curves (with move arrow shown)
Image
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Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby super_dipsy » 16 Nov 2017, 08:00

Ah, that makes more sense. I was thrown by the rule book thing you included which showed the Move arrow being straight if not supported but bending towards the supporter if supported. I couldn't see how that could work when you have two supporters. In your pictures though, the move arrow is still straight and the curves have to come and join it which I get!
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Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby joe92 » 16 Nov 2017, 12:06

NoPunIn10Did wrote:Support-to-Move Bezier Curves (with move arrow shown)
Image

This is brilliant. I would support changing it to this which is most definitely an improvement on what is currently available. The other suggestions in this thread give little to no improvement and I don't see any benefit in spending time on development for them.
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Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby super_dipsy » 16 Nov 2017, 21:58

Question. If the supports are ordered but not the move, is the Move arrow replaced by a dotted green arrow?
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Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 16 Nov 2017, 22:58

super_dipsy wrote:Question. If the supports are ordered but not the move, is the Move arrow replaced by a dotted green arrow?


No, the dotted green curves have their own arrowheads (or some other glyph, like Backstabbr's circle). Because of how they're drawn, they intentionally overlap.

If a move arrow was present, its own arrowhead would overlap the green ones; this just requires that the move orders be drawn last.

Support-to-Move Bezier Curves (no move arrow shown)
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Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby NJLonghorn » 19 Nov 2017, 18:12

The curvy thing won’t work well for longer moves. For example, what if An army in Piedmont is attacking Brest across a convoy, with support from a different power’s unit in Picardy. There’d be no line there to connect with, so the support order will look the same as an order supporting Paris to Brest.
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Re: Orders Arrows: Support to Move

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 19 Nov 2017, 20:17

NJLonghorn wrote:The curvy thing won’t work well for longer moves. For example, what if An army in Piedmont is attacking Brest across a convoy, with support from a different power’s unit in Picardy. There’d be no line there to connect with, so the support order will look the same as an order supporting Paris to Brest.


It's true that they may look similar, but they don't look the same. I'll demo this later and show the result.
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