AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw]

Discussion of finished games.

AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw]

Postby Fuddin » 12 Aug 2017, 03:46

The players:
TURKEY: champinoman (eliminated 1904)
FRANCE: cairoblue (eliminated 1905)
ITALY: mjparrett (eliminated 1909)
GERMANY: Shyvve (4 way draw)
ENGLAND: Fuddin (4 way draw)
RUSSIA: AleBelly (4 way draw)
Austria: Iggy (4 way draw)


Hey everyone! This is my first AAR! Also my first game where no one surrendered (Classicist games are good). So, here's my perspective of the game.

Spring 1901
I'm England, and start off messaging everyone. Pretty quickly I take a liking to Germany, and we exchange a bunch of messages. I make an agreement with France to DMZ the English Channel. I ask Russia to not move an army to St. Petersburg, and he agrees and keeps this agreement. Germany brings up the idea of a Western Triple to me, and I'm excited about it, because in all my games, I've never seen a Western Triple form. I bring up the idea to France, saying we could do Western Triple, or attack Germany if he prefers. However, France seems pretty disinterested, not sending many messages or discussing any potential moves, saying he'll "make up his mind after the spring moves". At this point, I decide that Germany will probably make a much better communicator than France, and decide to ally with Germany against France. I change from the standard English opening to moving into the Channel. Russia does a highly anti-Turkey opening. I try to convince Germany to bounce Russia in Sweden, but Germany insists on moving his fleet to Holland instead of Denmark, saying "It'll be useful in supporting to Belgium". The board looks like this after Spring, 1901
Image


Fall 1901
France loses his mind at my violating the DMZ in the English Channel, sending me messages telling me that unless I leave the Channel, he'll do everything he can to make sure I can't win, and talking about how I'm an idiot for violating an agreement so early and that no one on the board will ever trust me again now. This causes me to think that France will be a nuisance who needs to be gotten rid of, and over the course of the next few years, I go about doing that. Russia has now moved an army to St. Petersburg, which I'm kinda worried about. Italy, most unusually, has not moved his armies at all the first year, an opening strategy that I've never seen before. After 1901 builds, the board looks like:
Image


Spring 1902
Germany convinces me I need to convoy my army from Norway to Bel in order to continue our assault on France. I tell Russia about this, and ask that he please move away from Sweden and St. Petersburg. To my surprise and relief, he actually does! Russia/Austria are now assaulting Turkey, while Germany and I are assaulting France. Italy starts moving towards France, while telling Germany and me that he will help out against France soon. After Spring '02, the board looks like this:
Image

Fall 1902
Germany, Russia, and I agree to a situation where the Germany army in Denmark will bounce with Russia's convoy of Livonia - Sweden. Unfortunately for me, Germany holds instead (actually does that Den-Spain move), and claims that he meant to bounce Russia, but "forgot". (For what it's worth, I think he actually did just forget, but I'm not sure). Italy says he's going to help us in France, but disappointingly, doesn't actually do anything, just grabbing Spain and leaving Marseilles alone. Italy bounces Austria in Trieste and moves to Tyrolia. Austria claims this is an Italian stab, but I think they are really allies and have set this up to look like a stab. Russia and Austria continue to hammer away at Turkey. Turkey decides to move his fleet to Con, instead of maintaining his Black Sea fleet, which I think is a mistake.
Image


skipping over spring '03. . .
Fall 1903
In spring, Russia refrains from taking the completely unguarded Norway from me. He was not so kind in the fall, where he marched into Norway and hoisted the Russian flag, where it has remained for the rest of the game. Meanwhile, I take Brest, and Italy finally helps against France, by trying to take Marseilles. He also asks that I support him into Portugal, which is a bit disappointing to me, as I was hoping he would support me into Portugal, but I figure, eh, I'll support Italy into Portugal, thus destroying the French fleet, then later send more fleets down and take Portugal and Spain in the future. Meanwhile, Italy's promising me that if I help him take Portugal, he and I will take apart Germany later. I tell Italy that I agree, though in reality I was always planning to stick with Germany as he grows on land while I go into the Med. For reasons I still don't understand, Turkey just decided to literally step aside and hand Smyrna to Italy, moving his army to Syria to do so. Also, at this point, since Turkey is basically dead, Austria stabs Russia, supporting Ank to hold against Russia's attack, moving to Galicia, and attempting to support himself to Rumania. At this point, Italy has really profited off the E/G alliance against France, and (after somehow persuading Turkey to give him Smyrna for free - have I mentioned I don't understand that?) is tied with Russia and Austria as the most powerful nation in Europe, at 7 centers each.
Image

1904 - Italy's Greatest Moment
The way Italy played in this year was really something. It was so beast, so manipulative, so cool - it really seemed as though Italy was manipulating everyone on the board into doing his bidding. So, at this moment, I'm planning on sending MAO into the Mediterranean against Italy, English - MAO, and Bel - North (I trusted Germany) and NAO to Norwegian in an effort to take back Norway. I have been telling all of my plans to Germany, my closest ally. Italy's silky voice however, seduced Germany into turning traitor - he convinced Germany to turn on me. So, here I am, with the moves above entered, when Italy messages me, saying, "Hey England, Germany's about to stab you. He's told me everything you're considering. Watch out for Germany and Russia.", and I'm like, "What? No he isn't. If he's told you everything, then what am I planning to do?", and Italy proceeds to tell me all of my plans, and even which choices I'm considering, which I had only told Germany. So now I know Italy's telling the truth. So I say, "Okay, I believe you. What's the plan?", and Italy says, "Okay, Germany and Russia believe that we are going for a 3 way GRI draw. Germany thinks he will walk into Belgium unopposed in the fall, and he will support Russia into the North Sea. He will also move Munich to Vienna, and I will move to Tyrolia; Germany thinks that I will support Bohemia - Vienna next turn. Furthermore, they plan for France to do Par S Gas - Brest, and I have told them that I will cut MAO's support. However, I think this gives Russia too much power, so this is what will really happen: You, England, should not leave Belgium unguarded. Instead, move English to North, and in the fall, support North to hold. I will move Marseilles to Burgundy to try to cut Germany's support and help you keep Bel. I will also walk into Munich unopposed, instead of supporting Germany to Vienna. And I won't cut MAO's support for holding Brest".
Here's spring, 1904
Image

Then, in fall of 1904, literally every single thing Italy said will happen, happened. Germany didn't take the free center in Sweden, instead opting to support Russia into the North Sea. Germany tried to move Boh - Vienna, allowing Italy to walk into Munich unopposed. Italy tried to help me save Bel by moving Mar - Bur to cut support, but Germany used Ruhr to do the supporting, rather than Bur. France tried to take Brest back, and Italy, true to his word, did not cut my support. In this instance, after 1904, when most Italys are at like 4 or 5 centers, mjparrett somehow managed to be the most powerful player on the board, with 9 centers. Furthermore, he straight up saved my life here. If he hadn't told me what he did/if he hadn't refrained from cutting my support defense of Brest, Germany would have walked into Belgium unopposed, Russia would have successfully taken the North Sea, and I'd lose Brest, and probably would have died soon afterwards. So, thanks, Italy!
Here is Italy in all his glory, fall, 1904:
Image

1904 Builds:
Image

To be continued when I get a chance tomorrow. . .
Last edited by Fuddin on 12 Aug 2017, 21:05, edited 4 times in total.
Never Surrender. Never NMR. Also, screw kingmakers!
User avatar
Fuddin
 
Posts: 188
Joined: 13 May 2016, 02:41
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1117
All-game rating: 1119
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby Shyvve » 12 Aug 2017, 04:20

Reading and reliving this is going to give me horrible nightmares. I'll dig back through my messages and put together a semi-plausible, somewhat revisionist AAR. But, it will also be honest (as well as I can recollect without doing exorbitant archival research).

What's sad is S04 was probably Germany's high-water mark too, :lol:

I will say this though, I never had as much fun being Mr. Irrelevant.
User avatar
Shyvve
Premium Member
 
Posts: 142
Joined: 31 Dec 2016, 20:10
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1215
All-game rating: 1249
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby champinoman » 12 Aug 2017, 07:07

Letting Italy into Smy for free does look odd :P I'm sure there was some logic to it.

I wrote my thoughts up on this game weeks ago when I was eliminated. But they're on my work PC so will post after the weekend. Hopefully that sheds some light on the Italian gift.

Congrats on all involved in the draw, especially Germany who somehow survived long enough to participate in it.
champinoman
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 09 Jul 2015, 06:42
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1176
All-game rating: 1181
Timezone: GMT+10

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby AleBelly » 12 Aug 2017, 10:44

I'll give updates in chunks along with Fuddin's updates.

This was the third or fourth time I'd drawn Russia consecutively. The past few games resulted in draws, and though they were fun I decided this time I was going to play a little riskier and take a shot at a solo if there was one.

1901
I started off talking to everyone, and felt out Austria and Turkey, keeping my alliance options open. I agreed to bounce in the Black and DMZed Galicia with Austria. I'm glad the opening moves appeared anti-Turkish, already others on the board were paranoid about the Juggernaut. I also negotiated with Germany, trying to get Sweden in the fall. After some spirited debate he acquiesced, and I realized I could work with the Archduke. Austria is already coming up with creative plans, though seems a bit paranoid about the potential purple menace to his east. He comes up with a creative series of supporting moves that basically force me to move my fleet into Rumania and not an army. Well done. I pretty much decide to work with him then to dispatch Turkey, though I thought both would be good potential partners.

England probes quite a bit on all of my moves, giving me an uneasy feeling. But I play along to keep peace in the north.

I know I'm in for a good game when the shoutbox is full of banter regarding Italy's parked armies. Was it a bid to make us underestimate him? I don't know, but his unorthodox strategy really paid dividends in the coming year. I do make overtures to possibly team up against A/T in a couple years' time.

1902
I agree with England and Germany to demilitarize the north. It's in all of our interests, and there's talk of a triple northern alliance. Meanwhile Turkey's convinced there's a central triple taking shape, or is at least trying to convince me of such. Germany seems stalemated against France, I wonder if I can use that to sow doubt against our English friend. I cast my lot with Austria. I feel badly for Turkey.

Italy stabs at Austria in the fall. I'm suspicious it's a ruse, but Austria's a bit miffed at me, claiming I encouraged Italy to attack him (from Italy's mouth). I did not, and I have my doubts as to the Italian's trustworthiness. I should have heeded this doubt later in the game. However, the failed stab makes me think an A/R juggernaut could work.

France calls out for help, but there's little I can do - I need to finish off Turkey who is playing well tactically, and don't want to open another front against Germany.

1903
Italy is on the move. The build of a fleet in Rome worries me...maybe Austria and Italy have made up? Austria's holds instead of attacks suggest so, though he insists this isn't the case. Austria initiates talks of an A-I-R, Italy agrees, and then Austria moves on me in the fall. Bummer. Especially since I could no longer resist England's empty Norwegian territory and I've made another enemy.

I thought Turkey vacating Smyrna was a way to get me back for attacking him, but I get a note from the sultan that he was trying to coordinate a bounce, but took an uncharacteristic nap that ceded his SC to Italy. Italy has quite the silver tongue, but he's not that persuasive. Turkey's a good sport and I believe his explanation.

1904
I have an Austria problem now, and I lobby Germany vigorously for help. We try to form an alliance with Italy, and he plays us like a fiddle, continuing his masterful play. I'm now lobbying on all fronts to put up some defenses against him. I even crawl back to England, hat in hand, who gives me a good tongue-lashing for my earlier betrayal. But I think we have an agreement...
User avatar
AleBelly
Premium Member
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 11 Dec 2016, 17:36
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1062
All-game rating: 1068
Timezone: GMT

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby mjparrett » 12 Aug 2017, 18:27

Without doubt the most fun game I have played in, so a genuine thanks to all.

But can we leave the AAR here? Italy controls the board and looks certain for a place in the draw. Maybe, just maybe, he has hopes of a solo. I don't think anyone wants to see what the traitor Austria did next! (spoiler I know!).

I'll comment year by year when I have time. But for now a quick comment on my opening strategy. I read about this somewhere once and have been looking to try it. Essentially (as the original post alludes), Italy usually gets to 4 or 5, then gradually gets beaten back. Personally I think this is because Italy annoys someone too soon. So don't do anything in 1901 (other than grab Tunis) and see how the board looks in the build phase. Everyone else has enough on their plate without attacking Italy in 1901...

Now I always play each game on its merits, and see who I like the sound of to ally against. In my head I planned to attack France if I liked France and Austria equally (I don't like Lepanto's). But I felt like I got on well with Austria (France seemed a good guy too - everyone did, Austria just seemed more my type of player), so attacking France was good with me. So a build F Rome (which is usually the Italian build anyway and I felt like I could sell to France), but then 1902 go hard on France. With England attacking him (music to my ears), I get to grab a centre AND dictate terms (he let me have Spain in exchange for moving one unit back to Austria).

I personally think I overplayed my hand in 1904/5, but up until then I really thought I had played a good opening and for Italy was looking pretty good. Alas for what comes next...

I look forward to the in depth 1903/4/5 period of play which was genuinely so much fun to play. In those 3 years I must have sent close to 200 messages. Crossing, double crossing and triple crossing....
mjparrett
 
Posts: 24
Joined: 01 Mar 2017, 20:05
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1309
All-game rating: 1323
Timezone: GMT

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby FloridaMan » 12 Aug 2017, 19:41

I'm loving this AAR so far. Also appreciate the name of the game, whoever may have thought of it.

Riveting commentary :)
Bronze Member of the Classicists Club

"Our blades are sharp."
~ Words of House Bolton, A Song of Ice and Fire
User avatar
FloridaMan
Premium Member
 
Posts: 49
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 01:37
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1830
All-game rating: 1819
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby Fuddin » 12 Aug 2017, 21:16

mjparrett wrote:Without doubt the most fun game I have played in, so a genuine thanks to all.

But can we leave the AAR here? Italy controls the board and looks certain for a place in the draw. Maybe, just maybe, he has hopes of a solo. I don't think anyone wants to see what the traitor Austria did next! (spoiler I know!).



Hahaha, ah man.

AleBelly wrote:I thought Turkey vacating Smyrna was a way to get me back for attacking him, but I get a note from the sultan that he was trying to coordinate a bounce, but took an uncharacteristic nap that ceded his SC to Italy. Italy has quite the silver tongue, but he's not that persuasive. Turkey's a good sport and I believe his explanation.

Wait, what's an uncharacteristic nap?
Never Surrender. Never NMR. Also, screw kingmakers!
User avatar
Fuddin
 
Posts: 188
Joined: 13 May 2016, 02:41
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1117
All-game rating: 1119
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby Fuddin » 13 Aug 2017, 00:59

Continuing with Spring 1905
At this point, Austria and Russia decide that if they continue fighting each other, Italy will manipulate his way to the top and stomp on us all. So they stop their fight and Austria turns on Italy, kicking him out of Smyrna with Russian help. Russia and Germany agree to back away from the North Sea. I, annoyed about the betrayal in Belgium, take it back by supporting English to Belgium. Italy tries to convince me that I should use English to convoy Brest to Belgium for the most effective attack on Germany, and order MAO - Brest to protect it from France's army, but I am suspicious that Italy just wants to take MAO, so I don't do that. Italy is kicked out of Munich and retreats to Berlin.

Image

Fall 1905
At this point, Russia and Austria, who have rebuilt their alliance, are looking pretty threatening to me and Germany. Italy, Germany, and I make a 3 way thread to discuss our anti Russia/Austria plans. Germany told me that Russia is planning to take Denmark, so he asks me to use my North Sea fleet to bounce him in Den. I really want to just take Holland, but I feared that allowing Russia to have Denmark would make him too powerful and cause him to increase his navy in the north, so I did what Germany asked and bounced Russia out of Denmark. Italy asked me for support into Paris. I was again disappointed, because after helping Italy into Portugal, I was hoping he would offer to help me into Paris, but he absolutely refused to support me into Paris, saying I could either support him or leave it; he will not support me. So I sighed, and figured, ah well, Italy will have to turn east eventually, and when he does, I'll take his stuff. And besides, at least this will get rid of that French army. So I support Italy into Paris too, hoping to take his stuff in the future. And we agree to a bounce in Spain. Meanwhile, Italy and Germany also come to a deal that they need to advance on Russia, and so they agree that Munich will support Germany's army from Kiel to Berlin, and Germany will use his Baltic fleet to convoy the Italian army from Berlin - Livonia. This deal was made in the 3 way thread. Germany seemed pretty nervous about this and distrustful of Italy, but ended up following through on the convoy.

Attention Germany/Italy/Russia: Something you guys don't know: I actually very nearly told Russia about this: I sent a message to Russia near the deadline, saying: "Russia, are you there? I have urgent information for you" (paraphrase). And Russia said, "Yeah, what's up?" (paraphrase). I was about to tell him about the Germany/Italy plan, and suggest to him that he do Sil-Mun to cut Germany's support, and War - Liv to bounce the convoy, with the result that the convoy would have failed and Italy would have stayed in Berlin. This would have incensed Germany, who would probably have suspected Italy of tipping off Russia in order to keep Berlin. Italy, of course, would have known it was me, but no matter - Germany would have been furious with Italy, and, with all G/I trust gone, I could play them off against each other and prosper. However, at the last minute, I decided not to, for 3 reasons:
1) Italy was about to get 1 destroy, after losing Smyrna and Munich and gaining Paris. I was hoping that he would trust me enough to destroy his westernmost fleet. (If he gained Berlin, he would not have had a destroy).
2) I was also kind of afraid of Russia, and figured it would be good to have an Italian army in Livonia to bother Russia.
3) I figured (hoped?) that even if I didn't completely destroy the Italian/German trust, Italy and Germany would not unite against me in the future.

I turned out to be right about 1 and 2, very wrong about 3. So, when Russia replied, "Yeah, what's up?", I just didn't reply, instead of passing him this information.
Image

Spring 1906
Italy destroyed his Portugal fleet, to my delight. With Italy and Germany now both afraid of the Russian/Austrian alliance, I see my opportunity. I come to an agreement with Italy and Germany whereby we will all head east to put up a front against R/A. Germany was supposed to move Berlin and Kiel east, with Ruhr defending Munich, and Italy was to move Paris east to Burgundy, to help defend Munich in the fall. I strike, attempting to move units to Holland, Paris, and Spain. The Spain move succeeds. The Paris move would have succeeded, as Italy actually did order Paris to Burgundy, but to my eternal dismay, Germany anticipates my stab, supporting Munich - Burgundy (I was not expecting this, consider how many Austrian units were adjacent to Munich), preventing me from taking Paris, and also bouncing me out of Holland. Darn you Shyvve; I woulda gotten +3 units that year if you didn't do that!
Image

Fall 1906
Russia and Austria are delighted by my (mostly unsuccessful, except for taking Marseilles) attack on Italy, and they start advancing. Italy starts turning his fleets west for vengeance, and Germany starts heading west too.
Image

Spring 1907
So, when I turned on Italy and Germany, I was hoping that they wouldn't be able to devote too many units to fighting me, seeing as they were being pressed on the other side by the numerically greater force of Russia and Austria. I even kinda hoped that I might be able to "vassalize" one of them, getting one of them to do my bidding in exchange for me not helping Russia/Austria kill them. But no. They both turn west, mainly ignoring the threat to the east to attack me.
Image

Fall 1907
At this point, the R/A alliance is looking like it will be pretty dominant, so Germany brings up a stalemate line - he shows us a line that we (me, Germany, and Italy) can get into that would effectively hold what we had in the west, provided we took control of Norway/Sweden, which we could do if we worked together. I told G/I that I would help them form this line. I then thought about whether I should do that. I figured that if I helped form the stalemate line, there could be 3 possible outcomes:
1) The game would stalemate there and go into a 5 way draw.
2) Russia and Austria would beg me to stab G/I from behind, and I would, ending in a 3 way draw.
3) Russia and Austria would start fighting each other and the game would become fluid again.

I thought that number 3 was the least likely possibility, and I didn't want the game to end in a 5 way, so I figured, eh, let's go straight to number 2, and attack Germany and Italy despite saying I would help them form the stalemate line. And so:
Image

At this point, Italy thinks I'm a fool. Now, I knew Italy and Germany were mad at me, but what I didn't expect, is that from 1907 - 1909, Italy and Germany suicidally turn west, completely abandoning their homelands to Russia/Austria in order to attack me with all their dying strength. Italy turns all his fleets against me as R/A advance, and Germany does the same with his armies. By the end of 1909, I haven't made any progress at all, and meanwhile, Italy is dead and the German homeland belongs to R/A.

End of Fall 1909 Builds
Image

Fast-forward a bit more through 1910 - Austria and Russia both are building up sizeable navies. Austria's navy of 4 fleets and his southern armies are threatening to take Iberia from me. Meanwhile, Russia's putting a lot of pressure on that key space to England, the North Sea. In 1910, he builds a 4th northern fleet, and the Fall 1910 builds look like this:
Fall 1910 Builds
Image

By fall, 1911, Austria had managed to kick me out of MAO and had Iberia in hand:
Fall 1911
Image
At this point, Germany and I are both warning Russia that Austria is becoming very powerful, and that if Russia continues putting pressure on North Sea, I will continue to defend myself in the north, and while I will try to continue defending my south, it was only a matter of time until Austria became powerful enough to solo. I hope this will convince Russia to take action against Austria. However, to my dismay, Russia builds a fifth northern fleet, totally disregarding the threat from Austria.

Spring 1912
In this spring, Russia finally decided that perhaps Austria could be a threat. He tells me that he will hold back from taking the North Sea, freeing my fleets to start defending against Austria. I also make several suggestions to him on how to counter Austria, such as moving to the Black Sea, using Munich to support Kiel to Ruhr and moving Denmark to Kiel, while defending Munich with Sil and Ber, supporting Germany to Belgium, and shuffling his northern fleets around so that his army could move from its relatively useless Finland position into a more useful position down south. Russia does move to Black Sea, but ignores everything else I suggested, perhaps because he still thinks Austria is planning to cut him in on a 2 way draw? At any rate, he certainly wasn't going to win a race to 18. It was at this moment that Austria decides to make his run for the solo, moving to Aegean, Bohemia, Galicia, and Rumania, surprising no one (except perhaps Russia). At this point, I'm furious with Russia for failing to see this happen, and am convinced that Austria has the game in the bag. Germany rallies us to come together to stop Austria's solo, and I reply something along the lines of, "Fine, I'll try my best, but I'm convinced Austria's gonna solo sometime within the next 2 years, no matter what we do".

Image

Fall 1912
In fall of 1912, Austria takes Portugal and Munich and grows to a formidable 16 units. But Russia finally starts listening to our (Germany/my) suggestions, and we achieve full coordination. The fight to stop Austria, which I have named Operation Nightfall, is on:
Image

Spring 1913
I don't really have much to say about this season. We left Bel uncovered and were lucky Austria didn't go for it. Also, it's kinda ironic that after spending so long to protect the North Sea from Russia, I voluntarily let him in in order to fight Austria.
Image

Fall 1913
I made a huge mistake here. I meant to send a message to Germany and Russia to coordinate all our fall '13 moves, but I accidentally sent it to Austria and Russia instead (Austria is adjacent to Germany on the messaging tick boxes. Russia, not noticing this, replied to me and Austria. Suddenly, Austria was privy to all our plans for '13. As soon as I realized my mistake, I messaged Russia and Germany saying something like, "I'm an idiot and I hate myself. I accidentally messaged Austria and he knows all our plans now. Please shoot me". So we discussed how to do damage control, and we decided that we were going to change our plan, but continue the message thread between Russia/me and Austria, pretending to not have noticed that we had accidentally included Austria. In our fake thread, we "decided" to not defend Belgium or Warsaw, whereas in reality, we defended those. It worked. (Austria - you musta been confused. To make it clear - those first two messages actually were mistakes where we didn't realize we sent them to you. But the latter two were fake). Oh, and we did a friendly destroy of Russia's North Sea fleet - I would dislodge it, and he would destroy it and rebuild it in Sev, where it was badly needed.
Image

Spring 1914
I came up with a perfect defense of our west and north: NAO - MAO, Brest and Par - Gas, Pic - Bur, Eng and North bounce in Bel, Hel S Holland - Kiel, Bal S Berlin, Prussia - Sil. This guarded all our northern and western centers from any combination of moves Austria could do. MAO could not support anything, Gas could not support anything, Bur could not support anything, Ruhr could not support Bur - Bel because Ruhr had its support cut from Kiel, Bel was guarded by the bounce, Kiel was protected with a force of 2 by Hel and Holland, and Sil and Gal's supports were cut, so Warsaw was safe. (Except, actually there was one flaw: The move Hel S Holland - Kiel, and Kiel - Ruhr left Holland vulnerable to Ruhr - Holland. Russia pointed this out in a future turn, and it was fixed to Holland S Hel - Kiel). If Austria was going to win, it was going to be in the southeast, in Turkey/southern Russia.
Image

Fall 1914
Austria was advancing in Turkey and would soon gain the upper hand. We needed to do something about it. In this season, we were about to get very lucky. Germany suggested that Russia take Liverpool and build an army in Moscow, with the intent to advance Sev-Arm, Moscow - Sev in spring '15. I suggested that we go even further, moving Sev-Arm right now, hope Austria wouldn't move Rum to Sev, and then build an army in Sev. Russia was very hesitant to do this, and rightfully so, because if Austria decided to try Rum - Sev, we would have straight up lost within a year. I had very long discussions with Russia, in which I attempted to persuade him that Sev-Arm was immediately necessary to gain the upper hand in Turkey, and that the chances of Austria ordering Rum-Sev were very low. Eventually, I persuaded Russia to make the move, even though he was nervous about it. To my great relief, it worked. Austria, if you had ordered Rum-Sev, or for that matter MAO-Irish, you could have won. But, it wasn't so, and an army was built in Sev that year, and the door was slammed on Austria's solo chances.
Image

Spring 1915
In spring of 1915, Austria stopped attempting to solo. However, he did not want to accept the 4 way draw, as he wanted to get rid of Germany first to whittle it to a 3 way draw. I told him that I was fine with either a 3 way or a 4 way, but that if he wanted us to eliminate Germany, he'd have to make some retreats in the west so that we could do it safely. Russia however, was strongly opposed to eliminating Germany, saying that it would be unsporting to kill him just to go from a 4 way to a 3 way. Austria makes the western retreats:
Image

Fall 1915
At this point, I just want some draw to be accepted, 3 or 4 way didn't really matter to me. Also, the start of the school year is approaching, and I didn't want to be involved in a Diplomacy game during school (I procrastinate enough even without playing Diplomacy). However, it appeared that the game would still go on for a while, with Austria not accepting any draw that Germany was in, and Russia refusing to kill Germany. (I could not kill Germany single-handedly, since I needed my fleet to remain in the English Channel to be ready to convoy another army into France in case Austria attacked again). So I hatched a plan. (Shyvve, if you're reading this, please don't hate me forever. I like you; I really do). Germany wanted Russia to support him into Munich. So, the plan I hatched was this: English S Holland - Belgium, Hel-Hol, Kiel and Berlin S Burgundy - Munich, Silesia - Bohemia to cut Boh's support. That way, I told Germany and Russia, we're guaranteed to take Munich, since we're attacking Munich with a force of 3 and Boh's support is cut, so Munich could be supported to hold with a strength of at most 2. Germany and Russia would remain at the same supply center count, and I'd gain one center to build an army and convoy it to France to keep up our western defense. However, I secretly messaged Austria, saying, "Hey Austria, listen, you want to eliminate Germany, correct? Well, here's what you have to do: do Ruhr and Marseilles S Munich - Burgundy. Just do that, and you'll standoff the German move, and Germany won't have Munich, and Belgium will be gone too. And don't tell G or R that I told you about this." I figured this was great, since this plan would cause Germany to be dead, and it would look like a total accident - they'd just assume Austria got lucky in predicting that Russia was going to support Germany to Munich. Austria would get what he wanted - the elimination of Germany, and then the draw would happen. And in case Austria changed his mind and tried to solo again, I could convoy in my replacement army before he got back into position. I sent this message to Austria, but it was 30 minutes before the deadline when I sent it, so I don't think he saw it in time. That resulted in this:
Image

At this point, Austria lost 2 centers, Russia gained 1, and Germany was still alive. I feared this meant that Austria would not accept the draw. Furthermore, it now appeared that Russia was in the best position of any of us to solo, since he and Austria were both at 14, but he was in a position to advance more, but Austria wasn't. So I proposed a DIAS draw, thinking either Austria or Russia would reject it, and figured that Austria, Germany, and I now had to get in position to stop Russia from soloing. To that effect, I sent Austria and Germany a message entitled, "Stopping The Purple Menace" about what to do. I was planning to maybe build a fleet in Edinburgh. To my surprise though, the next time I checked the game, I saw that the draw had been accepted. Game over.
Never Surrender. Never NMR. Also, screw kingmakers!
User avatar
Fuddin
 
Posts: 188
Joined: 13 May 2016, 02:41
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1117
All-game rating: 1119
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby Fuddin » 13 Aug 2017, 01:07

Final Thoughts
I agree with mjparrett that this is the most fun game of online Diplomacy I've been in (granted, I've only been in 4 games, including this one).
So, a few thoughts on different turning points where things could have gone differently:

1) Oh Shyvve. If you hadn't turned traitor in '04 and attacked me along with Russia - if we had stayed together, we could have been powerful! We coulda stuck it to both Russia and Italy!

2) I wonder what would have happened if I had told Russia about that convoy in fall 1905, and suggested to him that he do Sil-Mun, War-Liv. Shyvve: would you have exploded at Italy? Probably you and Italy would not have later united against me when I went on my attack,

3) Fall 1907: I wonder what would have happened if I actually helped G/I create the stalemate line. 5 way draw? Or would the game have become fluid again?

4) Fall, 1915: Russia, if you had more time, would you have kept on playing and tried to solo?
Never Surrender. Never NMR. Also, screw kingmakers!
User avatar
Fuddin
 
Posts: 188
Joined: 13 May 2016, 02:41
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1117
All-game rating: 1119
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: AAR 130529: "Why is my blood on your knife?" [4 way draw

Postby mjparrett » 13 Aug 2017, 10:02

So 1904/5, the key season. I had a plan, I really did. I'd be interested to hear from my fellow players (mainly Austria as he was the guy that stabbed me), if I talked and persuaded too much? Or did I just leave myself too open?

So, the scene has been set. I've played an ok opening and have centres in France, but still have France wanting to work with me more than England. I am in Turkey as well, and poised to throw my weight around. Not bad for little old Italy! Here is when I got caught up in it though... My main alliance to this point had been a GRI. My main belief being that Italy cannot fight Austria and they should play as one nation (oddly enough doesn't apply as much when you are Austria imo). We were doing well and had built up some trust. But Germany and I were frustrated by lack of progress and I think both secretly feared that Austria had other alliances on the go. So we decided the double cross was on. Brought in Russia at Austria's expense and planned our moves to within an inch of their life.

I *almost* went with it all, I really did. But I was still talking to Austria and saw a plan. I could triple cross, feed all this back to Austria and set up myself as the dominant power. Austria would be grateful when he realised I was telling the truth and saved his life, and would be a faithful ally. Point 1 worked, point 2 not so much.

So I fed EVERYTHING back to Austria. But did it in a way that although Germany and Russia might suspect, they couldn't prove. I claimed Austria just guessed lucky with his bounces etc. I think they believed me. Then (as England mentions I was doing the same with him) I made my move on Germany. Now this pained me a lot, as I really had a lot of time and respect for my German player. Seems a genuine good guy. This game is a bastard sometimes. But my reason is, I want to solo. Of course I do, I want to solo every game. And if Italy solos, he has German centres. There really isn't any other way. I feared if I went with the plan Germany would get too strong and I'd never solo. Sure a 3 way would be on but who wants that?! So Austria and England play along, I grab Munich and look set. The next set of moves would see me dominant, and able to stab Austria at leisure. I wouldn't even need England, I could just build one or two extra fleets and block him from the Med.

Then, despite all my lovely words, my saving of his life, my promise of friendship to the end and the promised two way land... AUSTRIA STABBED ME. WTF?! How could he?!? It turns out for him it was the right move, but we will gloss over that fact and just call him a sneaky bastard. There, I said it. Austria you are a sneaky bastard. God I feel better now. As above I'd love to know the reason. Had I been too sneaky? Was someone out there playing the "everyone stop Italy card" really strongly? After all I had told you (all proved to be true), I was so sure you wouldn't trust Germany or Russia again. But you betrayed me. I need a lie down.

From there my game was over. No doubt experts of the game will see that 1904 or so picture with me looking good and think to themselves, "that Italian player must be crap to throw away such a good position". And in all honesty, never has a game of diplomacy felt like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory before. But I just didn't see it coming.

And then when England betrayed Germany and I on the stalemate line, I thought throwing the Austrian solo would convince him to rally to a draw. Worked for Germany but not me!! I was just too out the way to be worth saving.

Again special credit to Germany here. Not only did he get a result from this game, but was great with his messages, and didn't hold my stab against me and we started working together again when the time was right. Admittedly if he knew how much effort I put into stabbing him in the first place he might not, but there you go! The best part was when he asked me to write some fake messages to him which he could "leak" to Austria to blame the war on me!! Cheeky swine. I made up a "just seen this and too tired" reply (I didn't want the blame for the war!!) and promptly told Austria everything he said :D What was I supposed to do....

When everyone has time I'd love a rematch I really would. And hopefully not too many people read this thread as I do think I have an Italian opening worth playing around with....

Thanks again all, til next time!
Mike
mjparrett
 
Posts: 24
Joined: 01 Mar 2017, 20:05
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1309
All-game rating: 1323
Timezone: GMT

Next

Return to After Action Reports (AARs)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests