The Tipping Point

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The Tipping Point

Postby darksaberx » 01 Sep 2017, 03:52

Several times, I have found myself as part of a successful alliance, much to my delight.

However, I begin to feel apprehensive as my ally and I continue to grow together. Of course, stabbing right before finishing off a joint target seems like a logical choice, but is it really a good idea? Especially in the early game, unprecedented growth can be a real problem, as stabbing your potential competition pits them against you, and if you stabbed them well, you are now the clear board leader with a target on your back. This is especially tricky for me when the ally still provides very favorable tactical advantages, but could be a real threat very quickly. I then ask myself "Can I afford to have them as an enemy?" when making my decision.

I'm curious to hear others thoughts on how they manage and maintain alliances. Does anyone talk to their ally about their relationship very frankly (i.e. specifically creating anti-stab precautions for both parties at the beginning of the alliance) successfully, or is this too off putting?
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Re: The Tipping Point

Postby Cardlinger » 01 Sep 2017, 09:58

I think it depends both on your style and that of your ally (if singular). I prefer to spell things out (sins of commission) rather than leave things out (sins of omission). The latter usually means someone can say "we didn't discuss it so I thought I'd do that", whereas if an ally contravenes something that was deliberately articulated it's harder to walk back.

But some allies don't like my full and frank style, in which case sometimes I need to moderate myself and focus on the fundamentals. And, if needs be, exploit the omission-space myself :D

So it can vary. As a rule I personally prefer saying 'we'll do x and y, divide z this way, and keep units out of pqr and s to maintain our own lines'. Then it can be negotiated fairly fully - what we do, how we split it, and where DMZs/anti-stab areas need to be.

If you're a good player allying with another one, you know stabs have to happen for solo attempts and balance of power shifting, so you're better discussing it, imo. But others may disagree, and allies certainly can be scared (or even play the 'why are you talking about stabbing me / me stabbing you, don't you trust me/why should I trust you' cards). But I am a "daylight of writing" rather than "darkness of implicits" person...!

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Re: The Tipping Point

Postby darksaberx » 01 Sep 2017, 14:58

My personal experience has been similar to yours, in that when I could get my ally to discuss sensible safeguards.I do feel like this gets really complicated when their are more than 1 ally though, as you have several dynamics going on. It can work, such as when Germany plays Anschluss, where one country works as a mediator, but I've never been able to get more than one ally to agree to safeguards, as what benefits one person inevitably leaves another feeling taken advantage of.
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Re: The Tipping Point

Postby Cardlinger » 01 Sep 2017, 21:28

darksaberx wrote:My personal experience has been similar to yours, in that when I could get my ally to discuss sensible safeguards.I do feel like this gets really complicated when their are more than 1 ally though, as you have several dynamics going on. It can work, such as when Germany plays Anschluss, where one country works as a mediator, but I've never been able to get more than one ally to agree to safeguards, as what benefits one person inevitably leaves another feeling taken advantage of.


There are times in multiway partnerships when you have to talk about it, like when Russia, Austria and Turkey work together on a triple against the West. Turkey can just gobble up centres behind and you can't focus on the greater war knowing that, so you have to extensively discuss in a tripartite way how to deal with it, where to DMZ, where units should go. Mirror that with EFG with England being in a position to really mess things up (or France if England and Germany move on Russia specifically, I guess).

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Re: The Tipping Point

Postby greggybear » 02 Sep 2017, 05:46

Cardlinger wrote:There are times in multiway partnerships when you have to talk about it, like when Russia, Austria and Turkey work together on a triple against the West. Turkey can just gobble up centres behind and you can't focus on the greater war knowing that, so you have to extensively discuss in a tripartite way how to deal with it, where to DMZ, where units should go. Mirror that with EFG with England being in a position to really mess things up (or France if England and Germany move on Russia specifically, I guess).

Best,
Cardlinger


The other option in this situation, as I've recently come to learn, is to have the person in the back waive builds so as to not threaten his allies in front of him.
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Re: The Tipping Point

Postby darksaberx » 02 Sep 2017, 06:15

Thanks for the advice, I'll try it next time I try and organize a triple alliance.
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