What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diplomacy

What are your winning tactics? Kill them all? Discuss strategy for the classic and variant games using the classic map, or visit the sub-forums for the variant maps.
Forum rules
Strategy
In addition to the general Forum Guidelines (see here: viewtopic.php?f=130&t=15441), there are additional rules for posting in this forum.
1. When discussing strategy, reference should not be made to any active game. This section of the Forum is for general strategy discussion, not specific situations within games.
2. It follows that links, images, game name and/or number should not be added to a post if the game is active.
Posts which refer to a specific situation in an active game, or which link directly to an active game, are subject to editing or removal.

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby Otherwise » 03 Mar 2017, 16:51

It has been brought to my attention that I have made certain claims, or "promises", as some may call them, regarding the election of Donald Trump, and upon this election, my personal consumption of my own undergarments, to be documented on film, videotape, or by digital means, to be uploaded for the enjoyment of the public.

Currently, my offices are closed.

I intend to seek legal counsel.

I have no further comments.

-O
Otherwise
Premium Member
 
Posts: 274
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 18:21
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1118
All-game rating: 1142
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby Nibbler » 04 Mar 2017, 11:59

I am so glad Otherwise re-visited this topic - I hadn't seen it.

BTW, tighty-whities may not be very aesthetically pleasing but they go down easy.

Trump and Diplomacy? The Petulant of the United States playing Diplomacy?

Well, yeh, divide and conquer is an established strategy. Sun Tzu - the second most successful general of his era, probably - was very big on this. Winning the war before or, preferably, without joining battle. Brilliant.

Trump certainly did this in the primaries. But, let's face it, was there a decent Republican candidate among them? When you're talking about Cruz, slightly to the right of Franco, as the best alternative...

Then the Presidentials... well, Clinton was, apparently, the best the Democrats had to offer. The woman they didn't want eight years ago was the choice of this campaign. That's like a choice between foods for dinner.

"I have my favourite roast chicken or other stuff my partner bought which I don't really fancy at all. Chicken it is." Then, the next day: "So... what do I want that I don't really want?"

In the end, Trump's appeal to Neanderthals - with apologies to Neanderthals - and the gullible was enough to defeat, on the important level, a two-dimensional, unlikeable, opponent.

Which may well be what happens in Dip, too. Given the choice of two powers, both vying for a win, which are other players likely to go for? The dull one or the extraordinary one?

But my doubts about Trump and Dip are based around his style. Bullying, threatening, doesn't get anyone anywhere in Dip unless they are significantly more powerful than the recipient of this type of play. What he doesn't do is give up (so no surrendering from him) but can you imagine his reaction to a stab, effective or otherwise? Board thrown over. Or, on the net, ranting and raging and shouting. Yep, one of those players. Or if someone didn't agree with him? Ranting and raging and shouting.

A diplomat? Not Trump.
Respect neither opinions nor beliefs; only respect the person and the right to express them.
Play by the rules but be ferocious.
User avatar
Nibbler
Premium Member
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 20 Feb 2017, 09:27
Location: Yorkshire
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (974)
All-game rating: (974)
Timezone: GMT

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby Bromley86 » 05 Mar 2017, 01:23

Calling a significant number of voters in the country, effectively, neanderthals didn't work for Hillary, so then next Democratic candidate might want to accept that people with different views are just life, and it's best to not tell them they're awful people if you might need their vote.
A member of the Classicists, a group that aims to reduce NMRs/surrenders.
Bromley86
Premium Member
 
Posts: 425
Joined: 02 May 2012, 00:16
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1877
All-game rating: 2209
Timezone: GMT+11

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 05 Mar 2017, 07:17

Calling a racist a racist shouldn't be a bad thing. Or a sexist a sexist. Etc.


(Not saying that everyone that voted for Trump is racist and/or sexist etc., nor am I saying that none of Clinton's voters are. Just saying...if you don't want to be called a racist, don't act like one instead of getting pissy when you're called on it. If you don't want to be called a mime, wash the makeup off and talk sometimes.)
Platinum Classicist
(h/t lordelindel)

I am your (co-) Leader.

GM of Sengoku, Heptarchy 14.

France

Need a forum game GM'ed? PM me!
User avatar
nanooktheeskimo
Premium Member
 
Posts: 3640
Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 19:52
Location: East TN
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1190
All-game rating: 1288
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby Nibbler » 05 Mar 2017, 09:31

Yeh, using the term Neanderthal is, perhaps, harsh, especially to the Neanderthals (who were into art as well as cannibalism).

Cave dwellers would be better.

Not all Trumps supporters, of course. I'm sure there were many who made a considered decision about voting for Trump. Which is good for democracy. I just wonder at those who voted for him because they saw him as an "Alpha Male".

But this is a lot off topic for a Strategy topic ;)

He and his Cabinet certainly seem to have been talking a lot to the Russians. Good Dip practice 8-)
Respect neither opinions nor beliefs; only respect the person and the right to express them.
Play by the rules but be ferocious.
User avatar
Nibbler
Premium Member
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 20 Feb 2017, 09:27
Location: Yorkshire
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (974)
All-game rating: (974)
Timezone: GMT

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby GhostEcho » 05 Mar 2017, 20:33

Rather than getting into the politics here (there's a whole off-topic forum for that), maybe we can stick to pointing out that whether Nibbler likes the tactics or not, Trump's brand of diplomacy "won" him at least one "game". One can't, as has been observed, break out the chainsaw all the time in Diplomacy - if Trump-as-"Diplomacy player" doesn't learn other tactics he won't win consistently - but that doesn't mean we can't think about why it worked (or didn't) in one case and what analogies can be made to the Hobby.
"When you absolutely don't know what to do any more, then it's time to panic." - Johann van der Wiel
"I'm not panicking, I'm watching you panic. It's more entertaining." - Elli Quinn
"[Diplomacy:] No dice or chance. Just calculated insincerity." - Counter Trap
User avatar
GhostEcho
 
Posts: 1657
Joined: 10 Aug 2008, 04:56
Location: PG County, MD, USA
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1019
All-game rating: 985
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby JnArthBr » 02 May 2017, 01:13

Trump sure seems to be active in international diplomacy, e.g. a surprise strike on Turkey, upsetting his supposed ally Russia, negotiating deals with supposed rival China, all sorts of deal making and breaking. I think playing Dip with him would be nerve-racking. What do you all think?
In war, there is no substitute for victory.
User avatar
JnArthBr
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 30 Mar 2017, 03:52
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: 1042
All-game rating: 1042
Timezone: GMT

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby Zosimus » 07 May 2017, 21:29

JnArthBr wrote:Trump sure seems to be active in international diplomacy, e.g. a surprise strike on Turkey, upsetting his supposed ally Russia, negotiating deals with supposed rival China, all sorts of deal making and breaking. I think playing Dip with him would be nerve-racking. What do you all think?

Trump seems to be a chainsaw diplomacy advocate. He threatened to build a wall and cut all ties with Mexico. In reality, his goal seems to have been to scare Mexico into agreeing to renegotiate NAFTA.

Walls and the like were never on the table.

He seems to be adopting the same strategy towards N. Korea. He has warships headed around there, but his real goal is likely to be much more conservative.

As for Trump's position with Putin, I think he is under pressure from the Deep State.

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I like Putin.

As for what it's would be like to play Diplomacy with Trump, I think his style would not necessarily be effective. If he, playing Russia, threatened to invade Germany off the bat as a way to get an uncontested Sweden, it might well backfire.
Be more aggressive.
User avatar
Zosimus
 
Posts: 556
Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 22:17
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1723
All-game rating: 1756
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby ColonelApricot » 08 May 2017, 02:50

So far Putin hasn't murdered as many people as Stalin but give him time.
Ethiopia in Dissolution
User avatar
ColonelApricot
Premium Member
 
Posts: 243
Joined: 06 Oct 2013, 11:48
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 979
All-game rating: 1395
Timezone: GMT

Re: What Donald Trump can teach you about winning at Diploma

Postby Bromley86 » 08 May 2017, 13:36

ColonelApricot wrote:So far Putin hasn't murdered as many people as Stalin but give him time.


Is that polemic or hyperbole? Either way, for those paying attention, it's clearly batshit bollocks insane.

The real shame is that the Democrats should currently be the party of the not-batshit-insane, but they've jumped off the deep end to such an extent that Trump is currently looking like the right choice. Want illegal immigration down by 70%, without a wall, vote Trump. And, while I won't be holidaying in Seoul anytime soon, I'd be a lot happier to buy a property in LA currently than I would be under the usual mealy-mouthed muppet.

While those may have looked like political points, they were in fact Diplomacy ones. You don't get jack shit in the Diplomacy world by being wet.
A member of the Classicists, a group that aims to reduce NMRs/surrenders.
Bromley86
Premium Member
 
Posts: 425
Joined: 02 May 2012, 00:16
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1877
All-game rating: 2209
Timezone: GMT+11

PreviousNext

Return to Strategy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests