Rules Clarification

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Rules Clarification

Postby PatCleburne » 21 Dec 2014, 14:33

Hi everyone,

So I've recently gotten in the habit of looking up the previous games of my opponents on the site--mainly so I know whether they are likely to surrender after NMRIng--but also for some subtler stuff, the kinds of alliances they've had and the ways they've won or lost. I also sometimes like to bring it up in messages (e.g., "Well, I know you think I should ally with you, but in your past seven games you've stabbed your first ally on the board, so I'll require a significant guarantee. We'll need DMZs in Tyrolia, Vienna, AND Trieste. Yes, you can only build in Budapest.").

Is this meta-gaming? I can see an argument both ways: it cuts against the spirit of making your decisions only on the basis of in-game information, but it's also one of the real values of the community here. I feel a little bit like I'm looking at the games of chess grandmasters and learning playing styles when I do it, and that doesn't feel wrong.

Anyway, I'd appreciate the advice of any moderators or more experienced players with relevant thoughts or (preferably) knowledge.

PatCleburne
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby fijikilo0 » 21 Dec 2014, 15:57

I am not so sure bringing it up in messages is a good idea, if i got a message like that you can be sure I am gunning for you first.
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby PatCleburne » 21 Dec 2014, 16:47

So, maybe not a good idea. But is it against the rules?
- "As between the loss of independence and the loss of slavery, we assume that every patriot will freely give up the latter — give up the negro slave rather than be a slave himself." Patrick Cleburne, 1864.
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby fijikilo0 » 21 Dec 2014, 16:54

probably not
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby mcboyes » 21 Dec 2014, 17:03

I agree with Fijikilo0. It is definitely not an endearing trait when your style of play is critisized by a potential ally.

But I don't think it is against the rules.
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby gareth66 » 21 Dec 2014, 17:13

Yes, this is not a breach of the site's metagaming rules as described.

There is a circumstance in which it has the potential to become so though - and that is if the historic game that you are referencing also included another player in your current game. If, for example, that other player was you and you link dealings between the two of you in the previous game to how you are going to deal with him in this game (or even hint at it) then that could be getting into metagaming territory. And if the other player was another player in your current game, and you start making reference to how these players interacted with each other in the previous game in your discussions in the game in progress, then that is also dodgy.

But otherwise what has been described is ok as far as the site rules are concerned. May not be particularly sensible play, but not against the rules.
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby PatCleburne » 21 Dec 2014, 17:20

Thanks for jumping in, gareth! I shall proceed with a clear conscience, although if the strategy is as poor as the other comments suggest, perhaps with less success.
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby Alman » 21 Dec 2014, 20:04

I think there is a difference between doing your homework and rubbing your homework in others faces. :) You don't have to tell them what you have learned and can just use it quietly. (Ok, they tend to stab in the first round, so I'll look for signs they're at it again.) Gives you insight and information without making accusation.

Good luck!
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby Mr. Rumsfeld » 21 Dec 2014, 20:21

Yes, this is meta-gaming, and constitutes one of several contradictions/hypocrisies in the way the site is used.That being said, meta-gaming is only against the rules because the moderators say so, and then there's the burden of proof. Meta-gaming is far more common than most folks here like to admit. All in all, this is what comes of compromise - which is why compromise is never a good thing (just ask any spy whose identity has been 'compromised'). This is the price paid by Admin and that's how they like it. Two alternatives would be 1) to make the games anonymous and/or 2) to remove rules against meta-gaming (considering that meta-gaming is how real politicians operate in the real world anyway). The classic board game has exactly the right amount of rules - the extra ones merely dilute the experience and open the floodgates to all manner of whining, bitching and complaining. Whether you inform others of your meta-gaming or not, it's still meta-gaming. It really is that simple.
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Re: Rules Clarification

Postby fijikilo0 » 21 Dec 2014, 20:45

i dont like either of those 2 options
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