House Rules - What is Cheating?

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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby rick.leeds » 23 Sep 2010, 22:12

Depending upon how much you've drunk :lol:
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby rick.leeds » 03 Nov 2010, 22:08

Changes.

Violating the Spirit of the Game

1. Active metagaming can be, essentially, where players act as a “team” or partnership, denying others an equal chance to form an alliance with them.
(c) Entering several games with another player and always allying with that player for victories over other players. The general rule is that no more than 1 game in 5 should be with the same players and have similar outcomes.
Clarification: “similar outcomes” could mean draws involving the players involved, solo victories for one or the other, or a combination of these. Playing so that two or more players can eliminate the rest and then “shoot it out” – when evidenced regularly – will be considered as being against the spirit of the game.

The changes are in the clarification:
Clarification 1: "1 game in 5" relates to the proportion of total games, ie 20% of the total games a player has played on site involves metagaming.
Clarification 2: “similar outcomes” means a similar alliance within the games, with the same core of allies. Playing so that two or more players can eliminate the rest and then “shoot it out” – when evidenced regularly – will be considered as being against the spirit of the game.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby Pedros » 05 Nov 2010, 17:55

rick.leeds wrote:Clarification 1: "1 game in 5" relates to the proportion of total games, ie 20% of the total games a player has played on site involves metagaming.

Do you mean this Rick? Surely it's 1 in 5 games where the two players concerned were both playing? I could play only 10% of my games with one other player, and we would ensure that one or other of us gets a solo every time. On your new definition this would be only 1 in 10, therefore OK. But it's 100% of our games together!
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby evilenko » 19 Dec 2010, 15:15

Hello I´m new on this game.

I would like to offer my brother being a Premium member as a present for this Christamrs.
But I don´t want to seem to be cheating.
How can I do?
May I pay with my Pay Pal getting using his account?
Is there any other way?

Please if you know just tell me.
I want to surprise him and at the same way not causing a legal problem to his actual games.

Thanks
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby Pedros » 19 Dec 2010, 15:46

Hi evinlenko. Great idea, and glad you're enjohying it enough to want to do it.

You can do it with your own PayPal account; make sure you include a note giving your brother's username in the message (if you can find it - I never can!). But the two key things are firstly, PM Avalanche (site owner) telling him that you've done it and it's for your brother, with his username; and as a precaution send one to rick.leeds, the Cheaters Mod, telling him as well. The first is crucial or it won't get put to your brother's account; the second one isn't completely crucial, but the IP address will probably flag a query to him, so it lets him know what's happening.

There's no problem playing in games together as long as you play as two independent players. Starting with the intention of playing together, or just favouring one another where you wouldn't favour another player, will get you into trouble. Since you're posting here you'll already have seen Rick's basic statement in the first post about metagaming. The other thing is to make sure you play games which don't involve the two of you!

The other thing is that it sounds from your question that your brother isn't already a member - but you'll need his username for the premium - and he'll probably prefer to choose his own! You'll have to decide how to work that one out!
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby rick.leeds » 19 Dec 2010, 17:05

Pedros wrote:
rick.leeds wrote:Clarification 1: "1 game in 5" relates to the proportion of total games, ie 20% of the total games a player has played on site involves metagaming.

Do you mean this Rick? Surely it's 1 in 5 games where the two players concerned were both playing? I could play only 10% of my games with one other player, and we would ensure that one or other of us gets a solo every time. On your new definition this would be only 1 in 10, therefore OK. But it's 100% of our games together!

Sorry, just saw this one.

Nope, always has been 1 in 5 of the total. If it's 1 in 5 games of only the games played together, that means that you can only ally in only 1 game out of five. So in two out of five games, an alliance that leads somewhere would be considered metagaming, which is unrealistic. Having to be an enemy with someone in four out of every five games isn't going to be credible and could be described as metagaming by forcing a non-alliance.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby Caladin » 19 Dec 2010, 17:45

rick.leeds wrote:
Pedros wrote:
rick.leeds wrote:Clarification 1: "1 game in 5" relates to the proportion of total games, ie 20% of the total games a player has played on site involves metagaming.

Do you mean this Rick? Surely it's 1 in 5 games where the two players concerned were both playing? I could play only 10% of my games with one other player, and we would ensure that one or other of us gets a solo every time. On your new definition this would be only 1 in 10, therefore OK. But it's 100% of our games together!

Sorry, just saw this one.

Nope, always has been 1 in 5 of the total. If it's 1 in 5 games of only the games played together, that means that you can only ally in only 1 game out of five. So in two out of five games, an alliance that leads somewhere would be considered metagaming, which is unrealistic. Having to be an enemy with someone in four out of every five games isn't going to be credible and could be described as metagaming by forcing a non-alliance.


Sometimes it isn't done on purpose.

For example, I have played in seventeen games, yet there is one player that I have been in four of them with, passing the 1 in 5 limit, yet I didn't realise it myself until I looked at my stats.

It seems a very rigid rule that can easily be unintentionally broken.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby Pedros » 19 Dec 2010, 18:29

It's one in five with the same outcome Caladin. If you shared a two-way with that person in all four games we'd better have a look at you both!! :lol:
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby rick.leeds » 19 Dec 2010, 19:23

Caladin wrote:
rick.leeds wrote:Clarification 1: "1 game in 5" relates to the proportion of total games, ie 20% of the total games a player has played on site involves metagaming.

Sometimes it isn't done on purpose.

For example, I have played in seventeen games, yet there is one player that I have been in four of them with, passing the 1 in 5 limit, yet I didn't realise it myself until I looked at my stats.

It seems a very rigid rule that can easily be unintentionally broken.

Caladin, it is far from a rigid rule. It is down as guidance and has to involve metagaming. It doesn't mean you can't play in more than 1 in 5 games with someone, but if the alliance is there in more than one in five games it becomes suspicious. But suspicion isn't enough either, there needs to be evidence suggesting metagaming. So yes, it can be done without being deliberate metagaming.

Metagaming isn't like multi-accounting. With the latter, it is usually clear to see; the evidence matches up. With metagaming anything suspicious then has to be proven using a whole range of evidence. Simply being in the same games as someone else isn't cheating; allying with someone else isn't cheating, but will look suspicious the more consistently it happens. And if game results begin to match up, then it becomes likely to be metagaming... but still may not be. Allying with someone during the course of the game won't be considered metagaming usually. The majority of cases show that the alliance has been preset before the game started or formed immediately upon start and pretty much taken for granted.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby Caladin » 20 Dec 2010, 02:54

Pedros wrote:It's one in five with the same outcome Caladin. If you shared a two-way with that person in all four games we'd better have a look at you both!! :lol:


:shock:

Hide the drugs!

rick.leeds wrote:Caladin, it is far from a rigid rule. It is down as guidance and has to involve metagaming. It doesn't mean you can't play in more than 1 in 5 games with someone, but if the alliance is there in more than one in five games it becomes suspicious. But suspicion isn't enough either, there needs to be evidence suggesting metagaming. So yes, it can be done without being deliberate metagaming.

Metagaming isn't like multi-accounting. With the latter, it is usually clear to see; the evidence matches up. With metagaming anything suspicious then has to be proven using a whole range of evidence. Simply being in the same games as someone else isn't cheating; allying with someone else isn't cheating, but will look suspicious the more consistently it happens. And if game results begin to match up, then it becomes likely to be metagaming... but still may not be. Allying with someone during the course of the game won't be considered metagaming usually. The majority of cases show that the alliance has been preset before the game started or formed immediately upon start and pretty much taken for granted.


Ah, ok.

Thank you; I understand a lot better now.
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