House Rules - What is Cheating?

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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby Waterice man » 02 Jul 2010, 00:13

I think what happens is that action is taken in the games (certainty isn't hard to obtain) immediately, but you aren't suspended from the Forums. Moderators can generally undo their actions.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby TheSavage » 02 Jul 2010, 00:22

But is there some sort of rule for moderators that they HAVE to message you and inquire about the situation and get your side of the story if you will BEFORE taking any sort of action???....a while ago I was playing a game with someone that I knew in real life and we were in an alliance (not a preset one) but we were russia/turkey in a random assigned game. and we were doing well when there was a a huge ice storm where I live knocking power out for several days, however my friend living about 15 miles away had power, I was over at his house anyways and I asked if I could use his computer to fill in orders, so I did. Right after he logged in to fill in his orders. So, we each logged in as different users with the same IP adress, on the same game, at similar times. Sure may have looked like one of us was multi-accounting, or that we were metagaming and talking over our orders before filling them in. And if rick.leeds hadnt messaged me and asked if there was anysort of explination, and had just kicked us out of that game, or even banned our accounts, it would have seemed legitamate, but because he gave us a chance to explain, there was no unneccessary actions taken. I have respected rick.leeds as a moderator ever since, but I am just wondering if this is always the case? that they HAVE to give you a chance to explain.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby Waterice man » 02 Jul 2010, 01:16

That's for him to answer. Looking at your experience, I would presume as such.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby rick.leeds » 08 Jul 2010, 00:00

No I don't always send messages out requesting information. I do it if there is some doubt in my mind, but if the situation looks definitive, then I don't. If there's doubt then I don't act until I've seen the reasons behind what has happened. If the evidence is convincing, though, there is no necessity to ask for clarification. It does say that in the first post... usually it's a waste of time, to be honest. For instance, I'm currently looking at a number of cases that I needed clarification on. The two most recent came back with nearly all the emails provided not receiving the message... false email addresses tend to add to the evidence. As one of the accounts in one of the investigations is Premium, I also sent him a PM... and again have received nothing back. I think my hands have been tied by this. I'll try again, but if there's no reply I will have to take action.

However, accounts that are disabled are not banned from the forum. That means that if the user had a complaint to make, they can still raise it there. And when the accounts are disabled using the admin system, an automatic email is sent to the registered address. Any reply to that email is picked up by the Admins. Very few people ever post a response in the forum, though, and I believe that speaks for itself.

Of course, mistakes are sometimes made. What looks like strong evidence MAY always have a good explanation. Experience shows this is rarely the case. My priority is to try and ensure that games are as fair as possible for the community, though, and sending emails and PMs out that don't receive an answer is just a waste of time. More games end up being unranked as a result, more site members become frustrated by non-action. Unranking games isn't satisfactory, unranking them AFTER they have finished less even less so.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby trustworthy » 17 Jul 2010, 01:21

So what's the rule for same IP address accounts? Say for instance both my spouse and I make accounts but share an IP address. Is that kosher?
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby DOI » 17 Jul 2010, 01:30

trustworthy wrote:So what's the rule for same IP address accounts? Say for instance both my spouse and I make accounts but share an IP address. Is that kosher?

You'll be alright. Just say what you're doing, message each other in-game, and be prepared to stab each other.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby rick.leeds » 17 Jul 2010, 01:38

It's fine. But, if you're in the same games together that will flag up on the system. And that will kick off an investigation (eventually) and I look at the log-in times, the games the accounts are in, etc. If it seems as if there are more than one player, I'll either clear it (if I'm fairly certain) or send an email to find out what's happening. If I'm not convinced by the evidence I'll send emails. If it looks as if there really is only one account I'll ban... experience has taught me when to recognise the signs of more than one player using the same IP address. The chances are, if you're Premium, I'll send an email as a courtesy, anyway. You've paid to be on site and banning your account and saying re-join is going to cost you, after all.

We... or at least I... do make mistakes, my deific omniscience :roll: notwithstanding. But on the whole it is usually fairly easy to tell if it is a multi or multiple players. We do get it a lot... family, school IPs, friends logging on from a friend's computer, work computers :shock: And, as I said, if there's doubt in my mind I contact the account emails. If someone replies, the chances are they're being honest (well about 80% are); if they don't I give them time and if the emails are false it's usually so long and thanks for all the fish.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby cactusman193 » 17 Jul 2010, 03:37

Would it be considered cheating if, in a No-Rank game, several friends and myself join a game with past experience playing with each other? (We would play FTF, but 3 of them are on vacation for a lot of the summer).
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby Pedros » 17 Jul 2010, 10:29

cactusman193 wrote:Would it be considered cheating if, in a No-Rank game, several friends and myself join a game with past experience playing with each other? (We would play FTF, but 3 of them are on vacation for a lot of the summer).

Hi cactusman. Just to save Rick's time (still plenty of real cheats to catch!), the answer's no it's fine provided you play a proper competitive game. (I play regularly with a group of friends and just put a message 'A private game between friends' in the decription - so if somebody surrenders and someone else is thinking of joining, at least they know what they're walking into.) But even then, I'd say it should be properly competitive.

The exact rule, from the first post in the thread, is as follows (read it there and you get pretty colours! :D ):-

1. Active metagaming can be, essentially, where players act as a “team” or partnership, denying others an equal chance to form an alliance with them.
(a) Entering a game with a preset alliance with another player, whether friends or not.
(b) Entering a game and forging an alliance with a player that goes against reason solely because that player is someone you know from prior games.
Clarification: we recognise that trust is important in Diplomacy and that players will naturally be inclined to trust players that they have worked in successful alliances with before and, on the reverse side, be wary of trusting players who have stabbed them before. However, all players should have an equal chance to form a successful alliance with all other players in a game. Where the alliance, in the opinion of a Moderator, goes against the game situation and can be evidenced to be built solely on previous or existing relationships, this will be considered as being against the spirit of the game. As general guidance, other games with someone should not be the principal factor in the way you play a game.
(c) Entering several games with another player and always allying with that player for victories over other players. The general rule is that no more than 1 game in 5 should be with the same players and have similar outcomes.
Clarification: “similar outcomes” could mean draws involving the players involved, solo victories for one or the other, or a combination of these. Playing so that two or more players can eliminate the rest and then “shoot it out” – when evidenced regularly – will be considered as being against the spirit of the game.
(d) Entering games with known friends, coworkers, relatives, etc and treating them differently than other players by default.
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Re: House Rules - What is Cheating?

Postby retard.in.denial » 31 Aug 2010, 13:46

(b) Entering a game and forging an alliance with a player that goes against reason solely because that player is someone you know from prior games.

One problem I have with this is, who the heck gets to decide what goes against reason.
I bet you're all thinking Turkey and England are against reason. Well, although I haven't done it on here (yet), I used to always do that on face-to-face games.
No-one should be able to say that it is against reason.
And as you say, trust is important, so if you knew someone from a previous game, it's kind of difficult to not want ally with him.
If I was player A and I won a game with player B.
Then a couple of games later I end up in a game with Player B again, and I was Turkey and he was England... why shouldn't I ally with him? For one, we can't help each other straight away anyway, it would be more of an investment in the future of the game.
For two, I would never NOT ally with someone else because I was allied with someone I already know, if the alliance with this someone else made sense, then I would take it, yeah chances are I'd take both alliances, but I wouldn't stop a sensible alliance because I'm allied with someone I know from previously.

Sure, if I'd been in a game with Player B and Player C, then ended up in a game with them again that would look suspicious to start with, then if I was to ally with them both again, that would cause issues, a 3-way alliance that was a repeat of a previous game, THAT is unfair, but a 2-way alliance with someone you already know, doesn't really upset the balance of the game that much and still gives everyone a fair chance.

I don't think I have ever had a situation like this, but then I hardly pay attention to who the players actually are, just once at the beginning of the game to find a little bit out about them.
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