Twilight Struggle

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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby Hastati » 07 Mar 2017, 23:05

As far as balance, most meta-analysis has shown the closest you can get to 50/50 between US and USSR is to use the optional cards and give the US +2 influence at start (which will almost always be dumped into Iran). This is the standard setup for most tournament play as well. Of course that reasoning is from high level play, low level play it may swing things in very odd directions.
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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby Zubb » 07 Mar 2017, 23:26

Well, we are basicly talking about the learning curves now. The specialist/generalist spectrum evaluation greatly depends on where (on the learning curve) do you put the "generalist" and the "specialist". In theory we are speaking of players being on different "plateaus", but many games have several of these on their learning curves, my favorite example would probably be Race for the Galaxy, where, with expierence you change the way you think of the game several times.

Going back to Carc. I have somewhere around 3k games under my belt and I'm pretty sure that I can beat anyone who has grasped all the rules and the scoring sustem correctly, without having the expierence with meeple management, variable field value etc, like 70+% of the time.

Also, the level of variance should be taken into consideration. A total moron can beat a pro player in any given hand or even a heads up match in poker. While in Chess the Grandmaster will not lose to a highly skilled amateur in 90+% of the games.
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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby Zubb » 07 Mar 2017, 23:27

Hastati wrote:As far as balance, most meta-analysis has shown the closest you can get to 50/50 between US and USSR is to use the optional cards and give the US +2 influence at start (which will almost always be dumped into Iran). This is the standard setup for most tournament play as well. Of course that reasoning is from high level play, low level play it may swing things in very odd directions.

How old is this data? I've thought it was +1 in Iran.
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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby Cardlinger » 08 Mar 2017, 01:03

I have been meaning to play this for yonks but having moved physically I won't be able to coopt someone for the full board game experience, so have just sprung for the app. Will rock the tutorial and go through a game or two but relevant resources (besides googling) to get me up to speed quicker very welcome!

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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby edmgrim » 08 Mar 2017, 03:38

Cardlinger wrote:I have been meaning to play this for yonks but having moved physically I won't be able to coopt someone for the full board game experience, so have just sprung for the app. Will rock the tutorial and go through a game or two but relevant resources (besides googling) to get me up to speed quicker very welcome!

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Cardlinger

The app tutorial is practically useless beyond showing you how to play cards. Play two or three AI games and then do a live one and hope that the guy you get is willing to chat with you about the strategy and game play. (and willing togive you a couple breaks when you hand him the win).
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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby I Love Italy » 13 Mar 2017, 17:14

Okay: after playing my first game, I have a question on a rule that my opponent and I may have been playing wrong.

So, the rule for coups seems to say that, if a coup is successful, you change influence in the country (first by removing opponents', then adding your own) equal to the total of the die roll, plus the ops points from the card. This seems to be backed up by the example of play at the back of the rules.

However, this led to extreme influence swings in many countries. For example, when I couped Japan first turn (using UN Intervention on the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty) I ended up with a high roll, and 9 influence in Japan (as USSR).
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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby Cardlinger » 13 Mar 2017, 21:02

I Love Italy wrote:Okay: after playing my first game, I have a question on a rule that my opponent and I may have been playing wrong.

So, the rule for coups seems to say that, if a coup is successful, you change influence in the country (first by removing opponents', then adding your own) equal to the total of the die roll, plus the ops points from the card. This seems to be backed up by the example of play at the back of the rules.

However, this led to extreme influence swings in many countries. For example, when I couped Japan first turn (using UN Intervention on the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty) I ended up with a high roll, and 9 influence in Japan (as USSR).


The pdf guide I downloaded explains coups like this:

"Calculate the coup as follows: [card value] + [die roll] – [stability] * 2. That value is how much influence your opponent loses (and any left over is how much influence you gain). If the USSR coups Iran at 2/0 with a 4 Ops and roll a 3, 4+3-2*2 = 3. US loses 2 influence and USSR gains 1."

So, (4 + 6) - (4 * 2) = 2, so Japan would have lost its 1 starting influence and you would have gained 1, in residue. You got the "10" bit right, but forgot to subtract stability*2 to get the final coup outcome?

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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby Cardlinger » 13 Mar 2017, 21:05

Update from my side of this thread:
downloaded the App and played the AI about 30 times in the last week as the USA. Got a pretty good feel for how those cards work, and working alongside the pdf concatenation of the website (https://twilightstrategy.com/) have a handle on the game. Lots of fun!

Like how the USSR gets out to a strong start and the USA reels it back in; enjoy the historical side of it (this was one of our History modules for GSCE so it's been a while since I studied it). Actually, if anything, it makes me realise why in retrospect the Cold War seems less of an issue than it would have been living through it. And, how the vestiges of the Cold War continue to live on!

Need to play 30 games as USSR to get the other side of the board (racing to atomic war or early game ending, I guess), but enjoying it. I downloaded that pdf for nothing but probably should bung the guy some readies as it's a useful guide.

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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby Cardlinger » 24 Mar 2017, 20:19

Quick update a few weeks on from purchase:

now played ca. 100 games, 30-odd as USSR. The AI is ok but not great, I think. He made some silly moves like not covering Blockade. My win rate is about 80% USSR, 70% USA, which seems to chime, even if the AI is weak, with the general consensus that without balancing or expansion cards the USSR has a slight advantage.

good fun game though, knowing the sorts of cards is helpful and enjoyable. Haven't bothered counting to the nth degree on pre-shuffle early/mid war turns but get a decent feel. Expect I'd hold my own against someone owning the board game now! I can see why the boardgamegeeks love it. It probably isn't going to be my favourite game ever, I prefer >2p games. But it's very well made and was worth the £5 I paid for the app and the £6.50 I sent the guy who created the pdf guide, as he saved me months of learning I suspect!

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Re: Twilight Struggle

Postby marsman57 » 27 Jul 2017, 15:06

Ooh. I'm glad to see that this is widely available again. I (possibly mistakenly) thought it went out of print a while back. I see that part of that thought was because the version on my Amazon wishlist was discontinued and replaced at some point. It also seems cheaper now than I remember it being years ago. All good things! My birthday is in a month. Maybe I'll get lucky! :)
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