Comments or Questions on the Classicists

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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby Buachaille » 07 Jan 2015, 17:44

cdubose wrote:I am curious... what are the differences between Classicists and Ambassadors? I realize that the Classicist idea was implemented before the creation of the Ambassador and Diplomat classes, but now that those classes do exist, is there a certain level of redundancy in being an Ambassador and a Classicist? Are there any specific benefits to being both an Ambassador and a Classicist?

I don't intend any disrespect to either Classicists or Ambassadors by asking this question; on the contrary, I am a new player hoping to become both once I have enough games to qualify. I'm just curious where the distinction between the two lies.

Here are the details of the criteria to join each:


Becoming an Ambassador
In order to determine if a Diplomat should become an Ambassador, at the end of each game player records are checked to see if any Diplomats have attained Ambassador status.
• Your last three finished games you played from the start are examined, together with any other intervening activity such as other active games or surrendered pickups
• If you had NO SURRENDERS and no more than 3% NMR rate (excluding Builds), you become an Ambassador


Here is a quick recap of membership requirements/procedure for the Classicists (the eligibility criteria must be met on the basis of RANK and NORANK games):

Aspiring
For players who have finished less than 5 games:
1 game completed (without surrender)
No sanction from the site admin for site rule violation within the last month.

For players who have finished 5 or more games:
No unjustified surrenders in past 4 games.
No more than 5 NMRs in the last 5 games.
No sanction from the site admin for site rule violation within the last month.

Bronze
90% consistency
Complete 5 games
No unjustified surrenders in past 5 games.
No sanction from the site admin for site rule violation within the last 2 momths.

Silver
95% consistency
Complete 10 games
No unjustified surrenders in past 10 games.
No sanction from the site admin for site rule violation within the last 4 months.

Gold
98% consistency
Complete 20 games
No unjustified surrenders in past 15 games.
No sanction from the site admin for site rule violation within the last 8 months.

Platinum
99% consistency
Complete 50 games
No unjustified surrenders in past 20 games.
No sanction from the site admin for site rule violation within the last 12 months.

Obviously the qualifications are similar but different with Silver, and above in the Classicists being much tougher for some to achieve. The Classicists also have an additional code of conduct which you sign up to viewable here http://playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=14593

'Ambassador only' games have the advantage of being to specified as a criteria on the game set up screen making it automatic whereas 'Classicist only' games need to be set up manually.

You are right to an extent though in that they are both aimed at achieving the same thing. So would say there's an argument for further integrating the two systems.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby FrankC » 13 Jan 2016, 18:57

As I indicated in a post on this thread -- http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=551&t=51766#p855675-- I wonder if there should be a time-period included in the no-surrender criteria for classicist membership.

For example, Bronze requires that you have no sanction in the past 2 months. Should it also require that you have no surrenders in that period -- so that it's not just based on the number of games you've played without surrendering, but the time-period? Lots of people join the site and get into a dozen or more games right away (I know that I did). If they surrender in half of those, but stick it out in the other half, does really qualify?

I also note that the time periods that are referenced in the qualifications (no sanction in the past x months), at least as applied, do not require that a player actually be on the site for that length of time. For example, I qualified for Platinum only a few months after joining the site, even though the formal criterion is no sanction in the past 12 months. And while I'm not saying I should be kicked out (ahem), I'm not sure if the intent was to give me credit for managing to not get sanctioned for a number of months before I even heard of, let alone joined, the site.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby Eleusinian » 02 Jul 2016, 02:24

What constitutes a finished game?

To take an extreme example: I recently substituted in for another player's surrendered position. I had exactly one order to write, a retreat. As soon as that was finalized, the fall adjustments came and one of the players got a solo. Does that count as a completed game for my application? (Don't worry, I didn't do it just to cheat the system.) And for a less extreme case, what if I substituted for a surrendered position, played 5 game-years' worth, and then saw the game through to a draw?

Apologies if this has already been asked -- I searched and didn't find anything.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby WHSeward » 02 Jul 2016, 07:56

Substituting - as in using the site's substitute function - won't count because it isn't your game and you won't be associated with the game in any statistics.

But if you took over for a surrendered position, that is good enough. Nobody looks at how many orders you put in, just that the game is in your finished games and that you have no surrenders and a low NMR rate.

Some might think this a loophole in the rules, but personally I think it is fine (and changing it would be too much effort for too little return.) If someone is being kind enough to help finish out games and is savvy enough to find the Classicists in the forum, that is probably the kind of player we want in the group, regardless of how many turns were played in a replacement position.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby JonS » 02 Jul 2016, 19:07

Completely agree with WHSeward on all points.

Saw you posted an application - I will try to respond today or some time this weekend. Out for the day enjoying the weather and holiday weekend.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby Eleusinian » 03 Jul 2016, 01:05

No hurry! I just took over another surrendered position (in spring '02, so almost like new ;) ), so I've got 2 games going and am not in a hurry to start a new one for a bit.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby UFOash » 14 Nov 2017, 17:45

How do you check your NMR rate? Do you need Premium?

(should probably get it anyway tbh, been mooching off this site for too long :D )
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby WHSeward » 15 Nov 2017, 04:35

@UFO

Yes, it is a premium feature. Under the Stats tab, you click on Player. Your name appears on the top of the page. If you click that link (or type your name in the blank fields) your stats appear.

However, most any Classicist will do it for you if you ask. Here are yours:

6 finished games
1 solo wins (16.67% solo rate)
1 draws (16.67% draw rate)
Longest streak of wins/draws (premium only) = 0
1 surrenders (rank games) (16.67% surrender rate)
2 surrenders (norank games) (15.38% surrender rate)
633/644 turns taken (98.29% consistency rate)
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby ColonelApricot » 15 Nov 2017, 23:57

I've been a Classicist for quite a while but have very rarely participated in Classicist games. Why?

---Virtually all Classicist games are standard map, vanilla variant and I like to play premium variants and non-standard maps.

I am a bronze but probably could be at a higher rating but haven't bothered. Why?

---The only significant distinction seems to be between Aspiring and the rest. I think it is pretty tough getting seven platinum, gold or even silver level players together. I question whether the admin overhead in maintaining these categories is worthwhile.

Regarding reliability only, we have the following levels:

Diplomat - unknown.
Aspiring classicist - 1 completed game without surrender (managed by Classicist admin)
Ambassador - 3 completed games with "minimal unreliability" (automatic by site)
Bronze/ Silver/ Gold/ Platinum - various levels managed by Classicist admin.

Suggestion: how about automating "Aspiring Classicist" to become "Aspiring Ambassador" or "Attache" or whatever - to set a fairly low bar for newish players that are aspiring to be a notch up in recognised reliability. This might encourage them to build up a bit of reliability history with the next hurdle (fully fledged Ambassador) well within sight. And a PLUS for the hard-working Classicist admins to save them laboring on the steady stream of aspirants.

Along with that provide an "Attache only" option (including Ambassadors as well of course) in the game parameters. Attache-only games would offer at least a modicum of reliability above that of the great unwashed and there would be a fair sized player pool for such games.

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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 16 Nov 2017, 06:18

ColonelApricot wrote:I've been a Classicist for quite a while but have very rarely participated in Classicist games. Why?

---Virtually all Classicist games are standard map, vanilla variant and I like to play premium variants and non-standard maps.

I am a bronze but probably could be at a higher rating but haven't bothered. Why?

---The only significant distinction seems to be between Aspiring and the rest. I think it is pretty tough getting seven platinum, gold or even silver level players together. I question whether the admin overhead in maintaining these categories is worthwhile.

Regarding reliability only, we have the following levels:

Diplomat - unknown.
Aspiring classicist - 1 completed game without surrender (managed by Classicist admin)
Ambassador - 3 completed games with "minimal unreliability" (automatic by site)
Bronze/ Silver/ Gold/ Platinum - various levels managed by Classicist admin.

Suggestion: how about automating "Aspiring Classicist" to become "Aspiring Ambassador" or "Attache" or whatever - to set a fairly low bar for newish players that are aspiring to be a notch up in recognised reliability. This might encourage them to build up a bit of reliability history with the next hurdle (fully fledged Ambassador) well within sight. And a PLUS for the hard-working Classicist admins to save them laboring on the steady stream of aspirants.

Along with that provide an "Attache only" option (including Ambassadors as well of course) in the game parameters. Attache-only games would offer at least a modicum of reliability above that of the great unwashed and there would be a fair sized player pool for such games.

..CA

This probably belongs in the suggestion forum, if you want it to actually be seen and weighed in on.
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